Jude 2

Wrong is wrong...

but what do you do when everything has gone wrong that can go wrong...how do you start to make things right? Is such a thing possible.

Where should the church stand in such matters?
The Catholic Church has it's stand...I don't think that it is exactly a good one this time...there has to be a better way.

what do you think?

here is the story.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LT_BRAZIL_GIRLS_ABORTION?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

I'll go ahead and step out on this one......probably will hear back because of it.

Fatima Maia, director of the public university hospital where the abortion was performed, said the 15-week-old pregnancy posed a serious risk to the 80-pound (36-kilogram) girl.

"She is very small. Her uterus doesn't have the ability to hold one, let alone two children," Maia told the Jornal do Brasil newspaper.

that is my answer and the reason for my answer

Paul,
Congradulations on being one of the few to stick your neck out on this one...Look at the number of hits this thread has versus the number of comments.

The sound of crickets is rather deafening.

I am not an acvocate of abortion...I personally believe that it isn't right...I think of it as a curse...and some people would rather be cursed than blessed...so...the legality of it all??? it issomething that is a political issue and I don't do politics.

Politics killed my Jesus...so my views on politics are rather dim...even when cast in a positive light.

Rumor has it that the Catholic church has Excommunicated the mother for allowing the abortion. I can think of a lot of reasons to excommunicate her other than the abortion considering what I know of what are the customary stories of incest and child rape. (The mother usually knows but does nothing except to give a verbal dislike of what is going on)

Again...I don't know all the facts in this case...but on the surface...I see no one but the "vast unwashed" who seem to have any real compassion or signs of genuine love towards this child.

John, I see this similarly to when conjoined twins are born and there has to be a decision about which one will die in order to separate them, because the join is such that only one can survive the separation.

In the case of the pregnancy you mentioned, if the children could be brought to term and the mother's health were at risk and the mother knew beforehand that she would be at risk to get pregnant and she waited fifteen weeks before presenting herself for an abortion, then I might be inclined to say that she took the risk and now she should bear the children to term for their sake.

If, however, neither the mother nor the children can survive to the viability of the children, then the abortion should take place and the woman's tubes tied. After the misfortune of such an event and knowing that she cannot bear children to term, it would be morally irresponsible not to tie her tubes, because that would necessarily mean that any children she conceived in the future would die or be killed before birth.

Tim,
I don't think that you read the story...

The "mother" in this case is a nine year old little girl who was carrying the twins.

Her mother is the one who was excommunicated from the church.

JohnDB wrote:I don't think that you read the story...

Oops, you're right. I think the judge did the right thing, since neither the girl nor the twins could survive. Expecting a nine-year-old girl to carry twins to term for a cesarian is not reasonable. I wish the abortion could have come earlier, though, at the embryonic rather than the fetal stage. The stepfather should be held responsible for the deaths of the twins as well as the rape. What a trauma for the little girl.

"She is very small. Her uterus doesn't have the ability to hold one, let alone two children," Maia told the Jornal do Brasil newspaper.

shame on the Lord then

Brazil girl, alleged incest victim, aborts twins

RIO DE JANEIRO (AP) -- A 9-year-old girl who was carrying twins, allegedly after being raped by her stepfather, underwent an abortion Wednesday despite complaints from Brazil's Roman Catholic church.

Police said the stepfather has been jailed since last week.

Abortion is illegal in Brazil, but judges can make exceptions if the mother's life is in danger or the fetus has no chance of survival.

Fatima Maia, director of the public university hospital where the abortion was performed, said the 15-week-old pregnancy posed a serious risk to the 80-pound (36-kilogram) girl.

"She is very small. Her uterus doesn't have the ability to hold one, let alone two children," Maia told the Jornal do Brasil newspaper.

But Marcio Miranda, a lawyer for the Archdiocese of Olinda and Recife in northeastern Brazil, said the girl should have carried the twins to term and had a cesarean section.

"It's the law of God: Do not kill. We consider this murder," Miranda said in comments reported by O Globo.

Calls to Miranda were not immediately returned.

Brazil is home to more Catholics than any other nation.

Here is the story from the AP that no one seems to be clicking on before they comment.

JohnDB wrote:Here is the story from the AP that no one seems to be clicking on before they comment.

Paul did.

Honestly I believe that this is one that requires one to let God lead instead of relying on black and white answers that may or may not fit. I don't think we can sit thousands of miles away, untouched by the reality of the situation and jump to quick answers. I cannot say what I would do if that were my daughter (of course she doesn't have a step father, nor is she being abused in such a way, but then this little girl didn't deserve that either).

Frankly this should never have happened, this should never have been concealed this long, and honestly I wish with all our medical advances that there were other options available like transferring these children to a mother who was capable of carrying them and would be willing to care for them, but the fact is sin brings about messes and simple, stubborn black and white answers that don't get down in the dirt and deal with the entire situation just are ridiculous. By that thinking they were about to stone a woman, but Christ chose to get down in the dirt beside her and provide forgiveness.

He only forgave her because what she did was wrong. Where there is no sin there is no need for grace and forgiveness. Abortion calls for grace and forgiveness but should be taught against in the same way Jesus told the adulteress to go and sin no more.