Jude 2

Today my son competed in a Karate event and took 1st place in sparing and 2nd place in Kata.



He actually did perfect in his kata also.. but somehow the judges failed to judge him correctly and gave the 1st win to a young person whom FAILED to remember their kata completely and made several other obvious mistakes. Others commented on the obvious overlooked flaws also and stated he should have been clearly first instead of second. Bummer... but a good learning experience.


( this was a brief shot when he was on the floor. Hundreds of other kids thru adults performed )

I told him I treated it as a first because he did the best.

Fun day!

While I would like to simply offer congratulations, I am compelled to ask a question instead...

Should Christians participate in Karate? The martial arts have their roots in eastern religions, and promote meditation and tapping into one's ki or ch'i. Whether oriental martial arts, or india's yoga, Christians are increasingly adopting practices that are admittedly rooted in eastern paganism. (Consider this taoist's comments Christianity and Martial Arts - A Taoist's View, and this Christian's comments Martial Arts - Are They Harmless?)

Christians from those countries reject the practices, knowing first-hand their origins. But western Christians often deem them as harmless.

The same is true of Mexican piñatas. I was talking with some Mexican brothers, who told me that piñatas were used in pagan rituals, and therefore Christians shouldn't use them. And it is thought that they're just birthday party favors!

bibleguy wrote:While I would like to simply offer congratulations, I am compelled to ask a question instead...

Should Christians participate in Karate? The martial arts have their roots in eastern religions, and promote meditation and tapping into one's ki or ch'i. Whether oriental martial arts, or india's yoga, Christians are increasingly adopting practices that are admittedly rooted in eastern paganism. (Consider this taoist's comments Christianity and Martial Arts - A Taoist's View, and this Christian's comments Martial Arts - Are They Harmless?)

Christians from those countries reject the practices, knowing first-hand their origins. But western Christians often deem them as harmless.

The same is true of Mexican piñatas. I was talking with some Mexican brothers, who told me that piñatas were used in pagan rituals, and therefore Christians shouldn't use them. And it is thought that they're just birthday party favors!

I respect your views, brother, but take a broader view myself. Yes, many Asian martial arts have roots in eastern, non-Christian religions, but to reject everything that has questionable ancient origins is very narrow.

We will still have an Easter service, put up a Christmas tree and let our little kids dress up Dora the Explorer and score a bag of free candy, too.

I teach my children solid Christian foundations at home. It's no way you can reject everything in the world based on different origin sources.

When I first met the instructor. I made it abundantly clear of our Christian beliefs and that if anything was taught otherwise we would react accordingly. He GREATLY appreciated my direct approach and took the chance to share he was also Christian and educate me on his methods. I was confident after our meeting and have been for nearly 3 years now.

You have to be an active parent and evaluate everything and explain how our beliefs differ when that need arises in ANY SITUATION. The active parent is the key thing here. This builds strength of character in showing the kids whom they are being raised to be and why we differ.. rather than following with a , "I told you so."

We sometimes strain at the most helpful activities and swallow the largest elephants that will ultimately LEAD us into being ineffective dead Christians.

Glad to explain! God Bless.

Pastor Gary wrote:...

I respect your views, brother, but take a broader view myself. Yes, many Asian martial arts have roots in eastern, non-Christian religions, but to reject everything that has questionable ancient origins is very narrow.

We will still have an Easter service, put up a Christmas tree and let our little kids dress up Dora the Explorer and score a bag of free candy, too.

zactly. we track our weekly cycles and months on a pagan system. many things in our daily life is based in or rooted in idolatry in one way or another. I choose to take a less "legalistic" approach as well. Though maybe a bit different line. for example, I prefer to reference "Easter" as Resurrection Sunday. And Christmas or Xmass is a day we have set aside to celebrate the Birth of our Lord, not the day of celebration itself. our whole Gregorian calendar is mussed, but we use it anyhoots.

So, when the Lord says to come out and be separate, what does he mean? Does He mean, "Hey, go to services on Sunday and Wndnesday, and sing some songs, then go about your business."

Is there nothing that we should refrain from? It is easy to brand as "legalistic" anyone who questions activity. But in our quest to avoid legalism, should we not beware of liberality? Is it that we tolerate those things which we accept. Is there no second guessing on our part?

What about yoga? Is it a legitimate exercise system that Christians should engage in? Why? Why not?

How about lodges? Masonism, etc? We were taught against membership in such groups? Has our apparenty "enlightened" brand of Christianity now come to terms that they are perfectly fine?

Shall we start to have statues or pictures of the saints in our houses of worship too? I mean, it's just a harmless likeness, is it not? I mean, we're supposed to be open-minded aren't we?

In fact, why preach against anything anymore? It's a new day! God accepts us as we are, and those old pagan customs and traditions, well, we don't put the same emphasis the heathens did, you know? We've sanitized them and now they're simply decorations, or exercise methods.

As to the oft-referenced week/month naming, while the current calendar uses the pagan names, the system is God's. He instituted the 7-day week and the 12-month year. So, with regard to the time system, the pagans adopted GOD'S SYSTEM!! Not the other way around!! In fact, ancient Egyptians used a 10-day week, as did France in the French Revolution. This was an attempt to reject the divine system. However, man has proven that God's system alone makes sense over the years. So, in using our modern calendar system (regardless of the names) we are using the divine 12-7 pattern!!

But citing various pagan customs which we allow ourselves to practice does not justify practicing other ones.

I do not intend to imply that MacUser is willfully practicing or promoting eastern religions. No doubt you are sincere in your desire to live for God.

My intentions aren't to pass judgement or draw a strict line in the sand. I merely think that we should openly question and carefully examine everything in light of God's Word. (I have yet to hear decent scriptural support for Christian Karate).

The question isn't what can we do that wouldn't displease God too much. Rather what can we do (or refrain from doing) that would be pleasing to God, proving what is the good, and acceptable, and PERFECT will of God. Shouldn't we be pursuing that?

nope. but as mentioned - i draw a line. i didn't invalidate your line, just couldn't see where it was. seems that a "strict" coming out and separation of the world and the world systems (kosmos) would mean a strict separation - perhaps living in the desert on a monastery? Though I have personally contemplated that approach in much prayer, I have come to the conclusion that I can live in this world and not have it necessarily direct my relationship with Christ. I am guessing you have as well, but you choose a different line to draw - hopefully a consistent one.

My "line in the sand"?

How sweet are His words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth! Through His precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. (Psalm 119:103-104)

“And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength” (Mark 12:30).

bibleguy wrote:I do not intend to imply that MacUser is willfully practicing or promoting eastern religions. No doubt you are sincere in your desire to live for God.

Thanks - I think? Your seal of approval is really necessary (to me personally) in my ignorant personal walk. I don't think we will ever know for sure unless you help us decipher the difference. Continue to enlighten us all please. Surely we have a book of laws written by now?

bibleguy wrote: question and carefully examine everything in light of God's Word. (I have yet to hear decent scriptural support for Christian Karate).

Absolutely! Do we really want to start a list of things... we do... that are not in the bible or have scriptural support?

While I wasn't willfully ignorantly practicing or promoting an eastern religion.. I ran into several great Christian men and one COG pastor and son.

Beam me up Scotty.



Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Mat 15:20 These are the things which defile a man:

Christian yoga, christian boxing, christian strippers, christian rock 'n roll, christian rap... etc. etc.

Apparently if you add "Christian" to anything, it's okay. How about a christian liquor store or bar that would be a good thing, right? And then we run anyone with a hint of an objection out on a rail, or at least casually dismiss him as ignorant, intolerant and closed-minded.

When Saul kept the BEST of the flocks of the Amalekites to offer to JEHOVAH, it still displeased the Lord. Why? Because even the best the Amalekites had to offer was abominable in His sight.

Where have I heard this before? Oh, right...

“And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God” (Luke 16:14-15).

Is there nothing that qualifies as an abomination today? If there is, what is. Maybe I am considered a heretic for at least entertaining the idea that some things the world does are abominable in His sight. So be it.

bibleguy wrote:Christian yoga...

You mean the stretching exercises or the eastern mysticism? Do you believe one could do the stretch positions without entertaining the other?

bibleguy wrote:christian boxing,

A sport. Value neutral?

bibleguy wrote:christian strippers

Clever how you slipped that obvious one in among the others to attribute guilt-by-association.

bibleguy wrote:christian rock 'n roll, christian rap...

Musical genres... are there only SOME genres that are holy?

Boxing is not a value neutral activity. How is it value neutral to punch another person until they lose conciousness or otherwise knock them to the ground? While not questioning one's salvation, yet how can anyone whose activities are rooted in the works of the flesh (i.e. envyings, strife, emulations, wrath) be spiritual?

Paul did say the bodily exercise profiteth, albeit "little." "But godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come."

The wisdom of this world is earthly (carnal), sensual (not necessarily sexual, but appealing to the senses), devilish (promoted by our adversary).

So-called christian "genres of music" that cater to our carnal man, and our senses, is also not "value neutral."

bibleguy wrote:So-called christian "genres of music" that cater to our carnal man, and our senses, is also not "value neutral."

ALL music is sensory, and in the broader meaning sunsual... "gratifying the senses," unless, of course, it is badly written and performed music.

I am moved by patriotic music that appeals to my patriotism.
I am moved by romantic ballads that remind me of my emotional response to my wife.
I am moved by classical music that is beautifully constructed and performed.
I am moved by some forms of jazz that is creative and free and improvisational.

bibleguy wrote:christian strippers,

Maybe I am considered a heretic for at least entertaining the idea

haha... I'm really glad now my young 8 year old son doesn't know that I posted his photo here (considering removing it now with this above post and I think I would be justified).

Sharing our personal congratulation of him on his fantastic proud day (learning experiences included)... only to find some beloved brother comparing his activity to (see red above)? Wow.

Sorry BG, I discounted the entire rest of what you said by this (ahem - highlighted) comparison. Talk about a visual slippery slope.

Real eastern religions exist. Real pink elephants exist in Churches and lives of Christians. Real hurtles exist in the lives of our children. In this highly involved parental situation... this isn't one of them.

You are blessed and highly favored. God Bless.

MacUser wrote:Today my son competed in a Karate event and took 1st place in sparing and 2nd place in Kata.



He actually did perfect in his kata also.. but somehow the judges failed to judge him correctly and gave the 1st win to a young person whom FAILED to remember their kata completely and made several other obvious mistakes. Others commented on the obvious overlooked flaws also and stated he should have been clearly first instead of second. Bummer... but a good learning experience.


( this was a brief shot when he was on the floor. Hundreds of other kids thru adults performed )

I told him I treated it as a first because he did the best.

Fun day!

Awesome man!!!! I am wanting to put Toby in Karate classes soon!!! He will be 5 this month.