Jude 2

I didn't want to hijack PG's thread. But I keep seeing names pop up that I'm shaking my head at.

So my question is two part:

Who do you feel is a forward thinker or progressive leader within the COGOP?

Secondly, how and why would you describe them as such?

Now the reason I ask is because some of you are confusing charisma with progressive leadership skills, I believe.

Stevenson;
I am not sure but it seems you have raised a flag of disagreement on many of the names that others see as forward thinkers.

I think PG pretty well answered verbatim what I was thinking as I was typing out my list of individuates. Charisma did not enter in to my way of thinking at all.
Below are the criteria that PG listed just listed this afternoon after the question was raised on his thread.

• Innovative in approach
• Outreach oriented
• Not irrevocably tied to methodologies of past decades
• Missional
• Impacting the surrounding community
• Willing to change methods and approaches (without compromising the gospel)
• ...you get the idea; leaders you look up to, admire, emulate, learn from...

Now, with that said my question to you would be: what do you have against so many of the leaders especially those who have been listed? I respect your disagreement. So I wonder if the confusion is not more because one person may work with or in close proximity to certain individuates causing them to see the person in a different light. So far all of the names that I have seen listed in PG's thread would without a doubt fit what I considered to be the most important elements of them all:

Not irrevocably tied to methodologies of past decades.

Not sure if this helps you or not but for clarity sake I will let the list I stated on PG's thread stand as my answer to your first question and the response that I have given here answers the second.

God bless...
Don J

What I'm saying is that I don't just want a name, I want a reason. And I bet most people can't give any reason. Some people are getting credit for doing things that they are expected to do.

The reason I named scooter is because he ministers to people that the traditional church would not. And I also named PG, first because he kept with Jude2 even when it wasn't popular. Secondly because he is more about growing the kingdom then growing an organization.

But as I read over the names submitted, I keep thinking "what has this person done above & beyond"? I'll admit that Fred Fisher & Billy Murray were very forward thinkers. These men took tremendous steps in changing the face of the COGOP. And they did so even though it didn't make them popular and even though we lost some people along the way. I'll even agree with Billy Wilson. He tried to build a bridge between COGOP and other organizations. He stepped out beyond the walls of the COGOP.

My disagreement is that I think that many people are naming people based on charisma and not PG's definition.

just a few more lines to add......

My response is due to the comments made by Dr. Ron in the original thread. After reading his reply I started thinking long and hard. But what he said has alot of weight!

Well, I answered you and you didn't answer me. Hmmmm!

The best way to settle this is to take PG's list and make it into a list of questions.

How has ______ been innovative in approach?
How has ______ been outreach oriented?
How has ______ shown that they are not irrevocably tied to methodologies of past decades?
How has ______ been missional?
How has _______ impacted the surrounding community
How has ________ been willing to change methods and approaches (without compromising the gospel)?