Jude 2

Today I was at my home church. They changes the schedule from two services back to one for the summer months. so I was really early. But what a treat.

When I drove up the parking lot attendants were already preparing, marking off spots for the handicap ( remember we do not own a building, we meet in a High School Autorium).

The quess cafe was being set up, hot coffee brewing Tables anf umbrellas being set up.

Went inside the ushers were having their meeting, praise and worship team was going over the music.

Intercessor prayer team was in the choir room praying. Camera men were finishing up and sound checks going on.

Childrens workers and nursery attendants getting their rooms ready.

I stopped and told my wife, how blessed this church was. At least 50+ people there early doing their part to make the service as seamless as possible. all volunteers.

So I just wanted to say a very special thank you to all of those on this forum who work in their local church to help make a difference. Thank you for your time, resourses and sacrifice.

You are the ones who make it all come together. The pulpit mnistry has little impact without all your efforts. Again, thank you

Paul, I could not agree more. Our church is much smaller than yours, and we depend upon 50+ weekly volunteers to make it happen each week.

As many as 9 musicians rehearse and lead worship.
2 people make coffee, clean restrooms and organize hospitality.
4 people fold Bulletins and handouts and greet people at the door.
1 driver for the lift-gate truck + 5 or 6 more people loading and unloading.
Children's Volunteers = 6 - 8 weekly.
Young Adult volunteers = 3-6 weekly.
Bible Study/Small Group coordinators = 4
Tech (Audio/Video/Computer) Team = 8
Accounting and office = 4

...it adds up really fast!

Paul and PG

It seems like such a lot of work, every Sunday Morning, to put
all of this together.
With as large a congregations as each of you have,
is there a reason your locals don't own your facilities?
Do you plan to own in the future?
Or is a mobile facility the best option in your area?

Just curious
RuSKY

RuSKY wrote:Paul and PG

It seems like such a lot of work, every Sunday Morning, to put
all of this together.
With as large a congregations as each of you have,
is there a reason your locals don't own your facilities?
Do you plan to own in the future?
Or is a mobile facility the best option in your area?

Just curious
RuSKY

Here in Sourhtern California property is very high. Parking Restrictions and permits are next to impossible to obtain. Especially in the more Urban populated areas.

For a congregation to purchase land, permits not to mention building a sanctuary. don't even think about it unless you have a few million in the account.

Even to go into a shoppping center. Special Use permits can cost thousands, and then be denied and money lost. We were just looking at a lease space in a Industrial area.

Rent $10,000 a month
Conditional use permits with laywer to get them approave through the counicl $12,000
Construction to Get the Facility ready for Church use. We were given the figure of $300,000. Stage, platform, rooms, etc..
Remember this is not to own....We would be locked into a 10 year leese.

When you see a church building, most were built and/or exist under some form of Gandfather Clause. But many church have multiple uses.

Saturday: Seventh Day Adventist uses it
Sunday Morning the original owner lets say Methodist use it
Sunday Afternoon: Spanish uses it
Sunday Evening: Somoan's or Tongan"s use it
You might be able some where to squeese in the Korean's

For our church here we rent a High School Autorium on sunday, we have it most of the day. The set up/teardown crew gets there about 4 a.m. and will leave around 3p.m. We also use the out buildings for class rooms. It seats 403.
Tuesday evening we use A luthern Church for mid-week and youth.

combined we spend about $12,000 monthly. And yes it is really a major job, but as I said those who volunteer are simply incrediable people.

For a congregation to purchase land, permits not to mention building a sanctuary. don't even think about it unless you have a few million in the account.

I guess we in smalltown / rural America are blessed with
the ability to purchase land and buildings.

Most people I know probably couldn't afford to live there.

Thanks for the eye opener.
RuSKY

Paul is correct, except multiply his numbers by about 1.4 or 1.5 for Hawaii. Land here can be sold by the square foot, not by the acre... planning commissions and zoning boards are not church-friendly here. We gobble up a big block of property that gets removed from the property tax rolls, add traffic, noise, and strain to the infrastructure -- makes us unpopular neighbors, unpopular with local politicians, and not considered "highest and best use" of land on an island.

Add to that the enormous cost of buildings that often sit empty 60%+ of the time, ongoing maintenance and upkeep that divert funds away from missions and ministry, and you get a negative cost/benefit ratio.

There are down sides, I know; there will come a time when we will be squeezed out of using public facilities, etc. but, for now, we meet in the Cafetorium of an elementary school and pay $50/week to use that campus. We have adequate parking, a huge meeting room, electricity for all our tech gear and instruments; we have to have Children's Church outdoors under a covered breezeway, but that's not much of an issue in Hawaii.

Added to that is the culture of the people we wish to reach: many/most of them are people who have some church background, but mostly of a negative nature -- they have been hurt, offended, burned, used and abused by some church, and the thoughts of going back to (as one bluntly put it) "a building with a plus sign on the roof" keeps them away. A public venue (school, theater) seems more safe and neutral for them to approach and test the waters of returning to church.

paul wrote:

RuSKY wrote:Paul and PG

It seems like such a lot of work, every Sunday Morning, to put
all of this together.
With as large a congregations as each of you have,
is there a reason your locals don't own your facilities?
Do you plan to own in the future?
Or is a mobile facility the best option in your area?

Just curious
RuSKY

Here in Sourhtern California property is very high. Parking Restrictions and permits are next to impossible to obtain. Especially in the more Urban populated areas.

For a congregation to purchase land, permits not to mention building a sanctuary. don't even think about it unless you have a few million in the account.

Even to go into a shoppping center. Special Use permits can cost thousands, and then be denied and money lost. We were just looking at a lease space in a Industrial area.

Rent $10,000 a month
Conditional use permits with laywer to get them approave through the counicl $12,000
Construction to Get the Facility ready for Church use. We were given the figure of $300,000. Stage, platform, rooms, etc..
Remember this is not to own....We would be locked into a 10 year leese.

When you see a church building, most were built and/or exist under some form of Gandfather Clause. But many church have multiple uses.

Saturday: Seventh Day Adventist uses it
Sunday Morning the original owner lets say Methodist use it
Sunday Afternoon: Spanish uses it
Sunday Evening: Somoan's or Tongan"s use it
You might be able some where to squeese in the Korean's

For our church here we rent a High School Autorium on sunday, we have it most of the day. The set up/teardown crew gets there about 4 a.m. and will leave around 3p.m. We also use the out buildings for class rooms. It seats 403.
Tuesday evening we use A luthern Church for mid-week and youth.

combined we spend about $12,000 monthly. And yes it is really a major job, but as I said those who volunteer are simply incrediable people.

Paul I understand that greatly. I remember when I was pastoring or even attending Va Beach I would be so SHOCKED how congregations in other states would get a building with not many members I could not understand it at all!!! Now that I live in NC I can understand that better. It is much cheaper here!!!! Still not cheap cheap but it is cheaper! In Va beach (which is not as expensive as some parts of CA or Hawaii) it would cost a good $500,000 just for the land to build a average size church that would sit maybe 300 people ( that would be very little land, if you needed a 5 or more acres, millions), then to build..... forget about it. If you had 400 members or so it can be done, but small churches it is not easy unless you buy a old property and renovate it.

Apartments are easily $1400 a month (2-3 bed) so I do understand. Your budget now is really high, I am sure there are much more loopholes to jump through there also.

There is not a way to express how I feel about these folks. But they are there week after week....they just don't quit.

They know that souls depend on them./...that's their pay....love it.