WOF doctrine may have sparked BAD Economy

[Gerald Creasy]

I am sorry to see you have sold out, Gary.

I am sorry your arrogance and ignorance have reached new heights if you think love is selling out.

WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING!!!?????????

There is NO LOVE greater than Christ.

You dont sell him for a greater love.

THERE IS NO GREATER LOVE that makes Christ into something anyone can define in any different way.

[Pastor Gary]

THERE IS NO GREATER LOVE that makes Christ into something anyone can define in any different way.

Okay. You are the only one who understands the REAL Jesus. I bow to your superior Theological understanding, Tim... I mean, Gerald.

[Gerald Creasy]

THERE IS NO GREATER LOVE that makes Christ into something anyone can define in any different way.

Okay. You are the only one who understands the REAL Jesus. I bow to your superior Theological understanding, Tim... I mean, Gerald.

It is not I that have been educated to the level that God is not real or how you define Jesus dosent matter.

If something plainly contradicts scripture then it is not a matter of "my theological" understanding at all.

If The Bible says Jesus is God anyone who says he isnt whether he calls himself a brother or not is a fool; he has a different Jesus.

The same for someone deranged enough to believe that they can command the creator by their fleshly tounge.

You cant make their Jesus real by being nice and having a group hug all the while pretending there is no problem.

[Jamais Vu]

Okay. Have it your way. You are right, Gerald. Everyone else is stupid.

You may have thought you left the old COGOP exclusivist mindset of the past, but you have merely replaced it with another flavor of the same kool-aid.

soooooo you dont think Jesus is exclusive? you think there are other avenues to salvation, than Jesus Christ?? and how is "love" equivalent to just overlooking the differences in doctrine? i would rather have something that is REAL even if it hurts my poor feelings, than some head-in-the-sand, everyone come together in the name of love front.

[Pastor Gary]

You are now officially arguing with yourself, Gerald, because nobody here is teaching "another Jesus."

[Pastor Gary]

Okay. Have it your way. You are right, Gerald. Everyone else is stupid.

You may have thought you left the old COGOP exclusivist mindset of the past, but you have merely replaced it with another flavor of the same kool-aid.

soooooo you dont think Jesus is exclusive? you think there are other avenues to salvation, than Jesus Christ?? and how is "love" equivalent to just overlooking the differences in doctrine? i would rather have something that is REAL even if it hurts my poor feelings, than some head-in-the-sand, everyone come together in the name of love front.

Please try not to put words never uttered into the mouths of others. Either cite where I said anything remotely approaching what you have alleged, or apologize for the sly misrepresentation.

[Gerald Creasy]

You are now officially arguing with yourself, Gerald, because nobody here is teaching "another Jesus."

If you have established in your mindset that Christology is NOT the defining factor of Christianity AND that the belief in a Biblical based Jesus is "exclusivist", how could you even define "another Jesus"????

In your own words he could be anything one chooses to believe in their interpretation and it doesn't matter as long as we love one another.

[Pastor Gary]

In your own words he could be anything one chooses to believe in their interpretation and it doesn't matter as long as we love one another.

Please provide the DIRECT QUOTE in which I said that, or retract.

[THE RAzEr]

I just took communion in a room full of diverse people; some have what I consider seriously flawed Theology. SERIOUSLY flawed... and yet the scriptures are pretty clear that the true test of discipleship is not the accuracy of one's Christology, but one's love for other disciples.

We should all give that a try.

Well I guess we should just cut out all those scriptures about false Christs then shouldnt we?

Just chuck the real Jesus over the cliffs of Malibu while we hold hands and sing Kum Ba Yah while we achieve Cum Laude.


Then Lets holds hold a rap session. Everybody will share who Jesus is. The Mormon can tell of Jesus Satans spiritual brother. The WOF people can tell how he surrendered all just so we can boss him around. The Moslem can tell us he was a Prophet and not God...some of the Black Pentecostals can do the same.
And we'll all be right cause we have a warm fuzzy feeling about being nice to each other.

Okay. Have it your way. You are right, Gerald. Everyone else is stupid.

You may have thought you left the old COGOP exclusivist mindset of the past, but you have merely replaced it with another flavor of the same kool-aid.

Pastor, Ibam glad you see what you see. This is the same man you referred to as a prophet when others were trying to point out his exclusive views about salvation. He has always unapolegetically excluded people who do not join him in his judgements, not only of WOF, but Pentecostalism in general. He is welcome to those opinions, however.
Ray

[Gerald Creasy]

Pastor, Ibam glad you see what you see. This is the same man you referred to as a prophet when others were trying to point out his exclusive views about salvation. He has always unapolegetically excluded people who do not join him in his judgements, not only of WOF, but Pentecostalism in general. He is welcome to those opinions, however.
Ray

Aw Geez, another old geezer condemning me for not accepting his dying old geezer ways.

[Gerald Creasy]

In your own words he could be anything one chooses to believe in their interpretation and it doesn't matter as long as we love one another.

Please provide the DIRECT QUOTE in which I said that, or retract.

I just took communion in a room full of diverse people; some have what I consider seriously flawed Theology. SERIOUSLY flawed... and yet the scriptures are pretty clear that the true test of discipleship is not the accuracy of one's Christology, but one's love for other disciples.

I responded to your private email with questions that if answered would clarify your position and clear any confusion, but you adopted the supercilious attitude that Paul operates on: I'm so important I dont have to respond to this cretin.


1Jo 4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

But we shouldnt make anything but LOVE as our defining factor, therefore this passage is meaningless.



Who are these great men of God that don't even have to answer questions and demand to be believed without accountablity and threaten censorship of any that would "try" what they claim??

They quickly run to spiritual judgement at stiff questioning, and pass judgement of Fool if they are challenged.

Their love is for the pretty and the lovable, the gaumless who commend at their every word, but their love withers into barb wire for those who may struggle or have to contend within themselves with serious questions and doubt.

[paul]

Who are these great men of God that don't even have to answer questions and demand to be believed without accountablity and threaten censorship of any that would "try" what they claim??

They quickly run to spiritual judgement at stiff questioning, and pass judgement of Fool if they are challenged.

Their love is for the pretty and the lovable, the gaumless who commend at their every word, but their love withers into barb wire for those who may struggle or have to contend within themselves with serious questions and doubt.

Gerald, I could care less if you believe me or not. You have carved out your own life with your attitude, I fear you will die a lonely, broken man. You have given the impression that I have declared that Jesus is not God, That I have denied His diety. That my friend is false. I asked you to post my comment of such. You could not. Because I never made it. In fact I have on different occasions posted what my beliefs are.

I do not ask for an apology of your blatent lie concerning me, for I know that in your current state you are incapable of it. So I choose to forgive you.

On a lighter note: glad you changed your avatar...I think the mask was cutting off the oxygen to your brain

[Pastor Gary]

For anyone/everyone who really believes that you read scrpture purely, without the filters and biases of culture, experience, etc., I'll suggest the following for your consideration:

Walter Brueggemann, William Placher, and Brian Blount. Struggling with Scripture. John Knox Press, 2002. (primarily thoughts from Brueggeman).

Charles Kraft and Marguerite Kraft. Christianity in Culture: A Study in Dynamic Biblical Theologizing in Cross-Cultural Perspective, rev. ed.. Orbis Books. 2005.

Paul Hiebert. Anthropological Insights for Missionaries. Baker, 1985.

Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart. How to Read the Bible for All It's Worth. Zondervan, 1993.

[dolfan]

Historically, some bad Christology in the church has split people, but I doubt it has split heaven over it. Take, for example, the Nestorians. Nestorian believers exist in Persia today, small in number. But, if someone brings up the idea of Christians in Iran needing prayer, we don't stop and ask, "Wait. Are they Nestorians?" We just pray. Nestorianism may be flawed theology (the Catholic orthodoxy came to reject it with a lot of political wrangling, as if that were the means of finding truth). We might even call it "bad Christology", but I wouldn't call them non-believers.

[Gerald Creasy]

For anyone/everyone who really believes that you read scrpture purely, without the filters and biases of culture, experience, etc., I'll suggest the following for your consideration:

Walter Brueggemann, William Placher, and Brian Blount. Struggling with Scripture. John Knox Press, 2002. (primarily thoughts from Brueggeman).

Charles Kraft and Marguerite Kraft. Christianity in Culture: A Study in Dynamic Biblical Theologizing in Cross-Cultural Perspective, rev. ed.. Orbis Books. 2005.

Paul Hiebert. Anthropological Insights for Missionaries. Baker, 1985.

Gordon Fee and Douglas Stuart. How to Read the Bible for All It's Worth. Zondervan, 1993.

How far do you extend that Gary?

I keep asking but you keep ignoring my question.

Is NOTHING defineable because everyone interprets and brings things to their interpretation?

IS there a line to be drawn?

Why do you ignore these questions?

I agree that people take things to their interpretations but I see that there is a plain line that cannot be crossed.

The very divine nature of Christ can not be sacrificed in the name of love.

Or is the "divine nature of Christ" a matter of interpretation?

Apparantly so if Christology is less important than group hugs and warm fuzzys.

If the very nature of Christ is a matter of interpretation then the "good news" must be gotten out to the teens in your church: PArty HArty! Your pastor believes everything is a matter of interpretation. Tell him his view of sin is just his Southern Upbringing flavoring his reading of scripture and he's trying to force his interpretation of it down your throat.

Oh it's okay to comprimise on the very nature Jesus but not when it comes to the matter of influincing the behavior of those in your church???

Go ahead and prove this love that is greater than defending the very nature of Christ: Push the delete button.