Lust

[TW]

This is an interesting read.

Research involving a group of male students found that their levels of the hormone testosterone increased to the same extent whether they were talking to a young woman they found attractive – or to one they didn't fancy much at all.

After 300 seconds alone in the same room as a woman they had never met before, and in some cases did not find particularly attractive, the men's testosterone levels of the hormone had shot up by an average of around eight per cent.

Full article:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/scie ... gests.html

If this is true for the male population as a whole, and I have no reason to doubt that it is not, then the argument of woman becoming a stumbling block because her of manner of dress needs re-evaluation. It seems to me that our traditional view is the result of a male dominated culture in which the blame for our (the males) lack of self-control must be the fault of the woman.

Just throwing more fuel on the fire.


TW

*edited to correct link*

[Full Quiver]

It seems to me that our traditional view is the result of a male dominated culture in which the blame for our (the males) lack of self-control must be the fault of the woman.

Ironically that is the very thought of a certain "bishop" that I know. How is it that a man can be blameless in this department while condemning the woman or women that he lusts after? Blaming Eve for his sin didn't get Adam anywhere with God.

[Russell Roberts]

Ok, get your rocks ready. I think the idea of 'lust' has more to do with coveteousness than simply being sexually aroused by seeing someone of the opposite sex who is attractive, however they may be dressed (or undressed). Epithumea, used in Jesus statement about 'adultery of the heart' in Matthew 5 is the same Greek word used in the LXX version of the ten commandments and translated as 'covet'.

His statement was a part of his discussion on divorce. Given the covetousness of some of the Pharisees, they had no problem divorcing their wives to obtain what they had coveted...the wives of other men.

Notice that Jesus specifically uses the Greek word moicheia 'adultery' and not the Greek word porneia or 'fornication'. This rules out the possibility that his reference was to single men or women engaged in sexual fantasy. The word gunaikos may be translated either as woman or wife. Given that Jesus was specifically referring to adultery and not fornication, most likely, the word gunaikos, in this case, should be translated 'wife'.

If so, the translation would simply affirm a commandment that was previously given (not to covet other men's wives) but which had been ignored and was resulting in divorce over trivial things such as burning supper.

A better translation might read "whoever looks at a wife to covet her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

As for me, I shall be ducking. Bless you.

[TW]

irthnvesl,
I have no problem with your exegeses, however the thread is not about the translation of the word. It is about the common application of the word "lust," and the finger pointing as to who has the responsibility for it.


TW

[Brian]

TW, I know for myself that I have never pointed the finger at anyone for my possible lust. It is within the heart of man that he is lead astray and succums to sin. But you simply cannot remove midigating factors that obviously play a role in where our heads (no pun intended) are at.

I mean seriously its like that scene from the Matrix when Neo is in the simulated Matrix and is distracted by the woman in the red dress. What made her so interesting? The dress? Well, it was red and sexy among a mirad of pain clothes suits but I think it is a bit more than that.

I won't "blaim" the woman for the sin of the man (because men can be the blaim of a hundred millions sins all by himself) but in times past women have been labeled by some as a wiley temptress. I doubt she got that label from being and acting like Aunt Bee.

[Russell Roberts]

TW, if, based on my exegesis, the common perception of what constitutes 'lust' is wrong, the point of who is responsible becomes moot.

If one is sexually aroused by something they see or by a sexual fantasy (immoral or not) does that constitute lust?

If this doesn't constitute lust, what difference would it make if women dress provocatively or if men are sexually aroused by them?

Again, the point becomes moot.

[dawgs10]

i have two daughters. 8 and 6. if they dress with a low neckline and short skirts when they get older i will question there relationship with God. and before they get out of our house they will not dress like that. if they try they will get their butts beat. this world needs common sense. if a half dressed women is standing in front of a man the man has to be in a defensive mode. we need to all grow up and get past this need to push the envelope. Go to the beach and try to pick out the women that are Christian and those that are not. i bet you cant most of the time. Lust is completly sexual all of the time for men. and if women did not want men to lust after them they would not dress with everything hanging out. Men are attracted to site and touch. proven for years. one new idea will not change that. sorry tw but this idea is insane.

[Russell Roberts]

Interesting article TW. Didn't mean to hijack the thread brother. Bless you.

[Pastor Gary]

i have two daughters. 8 and 6. if they dress with a low neckline and short skirts when they get older i will question there relationship with God. and before they get out of our house they will not dress like that. if they try they will get their butts beat. this world needs common sense. if a half dressed women is standing in front of a man the man has to be in a defensive mode. we need to all grow up and get past this need to push the envelope. Go to the beach and try to pick out the women that are Christian and those that are not. i bet you cant most of the time. Lust is completly sexual all of the time for men. and if women did not want men to lust after them they would not dress with everything hanging out. Men are attracted to site and touch. proven for years. one new idea will not change that. sorry tw but this idea is insane.

So, if you are correct, there should be ZERO rape and/or premarital sex in Muslim societies, since the women are all covered up.

Balderdash.

[Susie Hamilton]

Adam said it wasn't his fault, the woman gave him the fruit.

We all have a personal responsibility.

[Russell Roberts]

Excellent point Rahab.

[Full Quiver]

Did Jesus sin if and when He ever saw a woman that was scantily clad? If not then why can't we be above such. I never read where He said turn your heads ye disciples for there is an immodest woman, what a tramp.

[dawgs10]

i have two daughters. 8 and 6. if they dress with a low neckline and short skirts when they get older i will question there relationship with God. and before they get out of our house they will not dress like that. if they try they will get their butts beat. this world needs common sense. if a half dressed women is standing in front of a man the man has to be in a defensive mode. we need to all grow up and get past this need to push the envelope. Go to the beach and try to pick out the women that are Christian and those that are not. i bet you cant most of the time. Lust is completly sexual all of the time for men. and if women did not want men to lust after them they would not dress with everything hanging out. Men are attracted to site and touch. proven for years. one new idea will not change that. sorry tw but this idea is insane.

So, if you are correct, there should be ZERO rape and/or premarital sex in Muslim societies, since the women are all covered up.

Balderdash.

your angle here is flawed. just because someone lusts does not mean they commit rape or engage in premarital sex. i would say in muslim societies the lack of respect for women causes that percent to be high.

[Pastorbps]

Argh!!!! The world is coming to an end. I think I agree with Irthenvsl's interpretation!!!!! Maybe this statement should have been on the prayer request forum. You know, like "Pray for me I think I've become a heretic."

[Brian]

i have two daughters. 8 and 6. if they dress with a low neckline and short skirts when they get older i will question there relationship with God. and before they get out of our house they will not dress like that. if they try they will get their butts beat. this world needs common sense. if a half dressed women is standing in front of a man the man has to be in a defensive mode. we need to all grow up and get past this need to push the envelope. Go to the beach and try to pick out the women that are Christian and those that are not. i bet you cant most of the time. Lust is completly sexual all of the time for men. and if women did not want men to lust after them they would not dress with everything hanging out. Men are attracted to site and touch. proven for years. one new idea will not change that. sorry tw but this idea is insane.

So, if you are correct, there should be ZERO rape and/or premarital sex in Muslim societies, since the women are all covered up.

Balderdash.

Sorry to jump in here Pastor Gary but I am sure you are aware that most experts in the area of rape say it is not really about sex to the rapist, but about violence. So the rape stats are not really going to reflect the amount of skin shown or unshown in a given area.

And your right about premarital sex. I think someone even posted some stuff on here awhile back about the number of sexually active teens are roughly the same in christian homes vs nonchristian. But I don't see how you could say (and I know you havent) that the sexual expliotation (sp) of women hasnt adversly affected our societies. I think it clearly has. sorry,I know this is getting a bit off topic.