Jude 2

From another thread, Full Quiver wrote:

Now that I have truly found grace I am just flabbergasted by the stupidity of religion. I even apologized recently to my oldest child for the indoctrination I took part in filling her with. I told her I can't buy back those years but we can use that misguided way as a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ (religion is self-righteousness and void of Christ) and keep us near the cross.

This struck close to home. I, too, have apologized and discussed with my older two the differences in the way they were raised opposed to how their younger brother and sister were raised. The difference? During the span of time between the two oldest and the two youngest, their father and I stepped from law into grace.

My two oldest were never allowed to even play with jewelry and so forth.

I don't even really know WHAT avenue I want to pursue with this thread. It's just that FQ's words jumped out at me as one that knows the same experience as I do in having children brought up on two different "doctrines".

Thanks Shellie! Now Wen and I are empowered to parent our children instead of indoctrinate them and tell them how angry God is with them for their disobedience. It is a serious learning curve for us and I pray often for grace and truth.

Good stuff. I heard a fantastic sermon on this very topic on 8/20 at a non denom gathering.

Shellie,

What an excellent post. That you were willing to question the traditions in which you were raised is a testament to your courage. To question the traditions in which we were raised is a bit un-nerving. But God is not afraid for us to ask questions...it doesn't demonstrate a lack of faith but is the unmistakable SIGN of faith. It is quite interesting that at every turn of the process God is there waiting. What about this God? Well, says God, here is how that works. Yes, but what about this Lord? Well, here is how this fits into the puzzle.

Bless you and thanks for sharing.

Russell

yes, very good post. I have no problem apologizing to my boys when I have been too quick to reprimand them or dont know the full situation.

So far, I have been able to have some very frank and stripped down conversations with my boys. We have a good communication channel. If they have questions (whether it be about girls, their bodies, alcohol, tats, whatever) they ask. If I dont know the answer, I'll admit it.

I dont claim or pretend to be perfect.

I must have been one of the few fortunate PKs growing up in COGOP. My dad always told us that he wanted to teach us "HOW to think, not WHAT to think". Yes we were made to go to church but COGOP was never "forced" on us. Whenever we heard something that we didn't agree with we could always discuss it with dad and the first thing he would say was "What do you think?" We didn't always agree on things but we were allowed to think our own thoughts and draw our own conclusions. For that I will always be grateful.

ImaPK wrote:I must have been one of the few fortunate PKs growing up in COGOP. My dad always told us that he wanted to teach us "HOW to think, not WHAT to think". Yes we were made to go to church but COGOP was never "forced" on us. Whenever we heard something that we didn't agree with we could always discuss it with dad and the first thing he would say was "What do you think?" We didn't always agree on things but we were allowed to think our own thoughts and draw our own conclusions. For that I will always be grateful.

Well, I was one of the DK's/PGD (Deacon's Kid and Preacher's Grandaughter) and I was raised the same way.

I have no regrets or apologies for raising my children to love the The Lord & His Doctrine...and The Church & it's people.

Racerunner....one day you will apologize for raising them according to the church....Got no problem with raising God fearing , bible believing, soul searching kids....did it myself.

However, I have apologized to them for trying to "indoctrinate" them into the church mentality....that is catholicism......We shouldn't do that....

It was the church that almost destroyed my kids.....thank God I had taught them enough about God to sustain them when the church pushed them away....and to the church's shame and loss.....

Teach them the precepts of God and his love....that will stand when church's split, fall apart or whatever.....

God help us all......

Dr. Ron wrote:Racerunner....one day you will apologize for raising them according to the church....Got no problem with raising God fearing , bible believing, soul searching kids....did it myself.

However, I have apologized to them for trying to "indoctrinate" them into the church mentality....that is catholicism......We shouldn't do that....

It was the church that almost destroyed my kids.....thank God I had taught them enough about God to sustain them when the church pushed them away....and to the church's shame and loss.....

Teach them the precepts of God and his love....that will stand when church's split, fall apart or whatever.....

God help us all......

Response: Thus the post, it's sometimes a hard thing to do especially when you don't yet realize the mistakes you've made.

You know...it's funny. I can see the difference in my children from my teachings and I have prayed that the Lord might undo any "harm" I did.

My two older children 22 and 19, who were raised on the "word" according to the church, can go head to head with just about anyone on scripture, advice to members, or what's "right and wrong" according to the church. But it would seem that there is a void there that I pray they can learn to fill. They are saved, they just don't seem to have the joy of the Lord. They are critical and tend to have "black or white" mentality when it comes to people.

My two younger children, 11 and 13, who were raised IN the church but ON His Word and not on advice to members, go around singing praise and worship songs, tend to be kinder to others, care more about helping out, and love to participate in dramas, songs, plays, and church events such as camp, retreats, and etc.

I guess some could say it is their age....but I say it was that one set was raised on law and the other set on grace.

Shellie wrote:You know...it's funny. I can see the difference in my children from my teachings and I have prayed that the Lord might undo any "harm" I did.

My two older children 22 and 19, who were raised on the "word" according to the church, can go head to head with just about anyone on scripture, advice to members, or what's "right and wrong" according to the church. But it would seem that there is a void there that I pray they can learn to fill. They are saved, they just don't seem to have the joy of the Lord. They are critical and tend to have "black or white" mentality when it comes to people.

My two younger children, 11 and 13, who were raised IN the church but ON His Word and not on advice to members, go around singing praise and worship songs, tend to be kinder to others, care more about helping out, and love to participate in dramas, songs, plays, and church events such as camp, retreats, and etc.

I guess some could say it is their age....but I say it was that one set was raised on law and the other set on grace.

I'm not criticising you Shellie. Raising kids is the hardest thing in the world to do and there is no set way and you certainly need no input from me. We pray to do the best we can...send them on their way...and pray they choose God's way and resist the devil. The Church is an ark of safety in this wicked world. If they choose to turn away from God during their lives, we keep praying that they will remember the "altar" we established in their hearts when they were young and return back to the Lord.

Biblical doctrine and instruction contains both grace and law...one can't live without the other...creating balance and moderation.

Dr. Ron wrote:Racerunner....one day you will apologize for raising them according to the church....Got no problem with raising God fearing , bible believing, soul searching kids....did it myself.

However, I have apologized to them for trying to "indoctrinate" them into the church mentality....that is catholicism......We shouldn't do that....

It was the church that almost destroyed my kids.....thank God I had taught them enough about God to sustain them when the church pushed them away....and to the church's shame and loss.....

Teach them the precepts of God and his love ....that will stand when church's split, fall apart or whatever.....

God help us all......

Dr. Ron:

I HAVE taught the "the precepts of God (His Law) and his love (Grace)....that will stand when church's split, fall apart or whatever....." and allow me to add..."when churches purposely turn away from the truth".... which is why we & they are where we are today. However, my husband does express his regrets for his "remaining" for 10 years after '93.

I won't comment on the main body of your post. I don't know you. I don't know your situations or problems. I would have been too young to notice your name on the assembly programs.


However, once again....your "prophesies" continue in error.


...

My wife and I made a decision not to raise PK's or CoGoP kids...Just to raise kids that love the Lord more than anything. At 22 & 15 they've made some good choices and some bad ones but they have always known they were loved. By the way, neither of my kids are members of CoGoP...They have no desire to be a church member at this time in their lives and we have not "forced" it on them.

Race Runner wrote:

Biblical doctrine and instruction contains both grace and law...one can't live without the other...creating balance and moderation

Oh....no doubt about it. I fully agree.

It's just that God's law is tempered by grace......the church's is not.

Racerunner I am praying for you that the angels of the lord and Holy Spirit will open your eyes on how prideful, arrogant and condescending your are in your post.

You begin with "I'm not criticizing" but then go on to tell all how your way is the only way.

Also I hope that the prophecy of DR. RON as you call it will proove to be untrue for when the end comes I am afaid that you might be saying "Lord Lord"

Tcog (as well as we those of us who embraced "the vision" of the church back in the day), are no better than those who declare prophecy and revelation from the catholic visitations of the "virgin Mary" and Joesph Smith Angel 'Moroni'.

It is Christ and Christ alone that is worthy to be worship not the Body or the Bride which we have done by embracing the exaltation of these analogies.

I don't expect you to accept this statement from me as fact and admonition from the Lord but I hope at least to have planted a seed so your fall will not be so far or hard.

Jason