Jude 2

http://www.whas11.com/video/crimetracke ... vid=395583


Watch the linked video clip above.

This brings up interesting discussion concerning the question of can we truly become a church for ALL people? I understand that this particular church congregation has a large constituency of gay and transgender attendees.

pa

A brother in Christ has a site to warn us to watch out for false prophets for they come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. http://www.gcmwatch.com/

It seems to be a problem within the COGIC

It's not so much having gay and transgender attendees, but what is taught and by whom. It's seems that the COGIC allows for gay ministers
and these so called ministers have sex crimes against them.

pastorables wrote:http://www.whas11.com/video/crimetracker-index.html?nvid=395583


Watch the linked video clip above.

This brings up interesting discussion concerning the question of can we truly become a church for ALL people? I understand that this particular church congregation has a large constituency of gay and transgender attendees.

pa

Isnt this like putting the fox in charge of the hen house?

The problem is that if he got saved and is doing his best to live for the Lord with out sin, then he is just as much a brother as any one else. Herein is his problem (I think) is that while most sins ends at the "alter", (for those that might not understand, REPENTANCE), some sins will go with us for ever in this life. A murder, a thieft, a Registered Sex Offender, or any other offence that would require a pay back to society has a duty by law to fullfil and some times its a monkey on their back. If God forgives them, then we have an obligation to forgive also, but this doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep an eye on that person, not to pick on or out something to bring against them, but to make sure that they have indeed repented. To protect against wolves in sheep clothings.

Its not the former sinners that I have a problem with, its the present ones. Weither they were/are sex offenders, gays, murders, of what have you, if they are still doing that then they are still sinners and not brothers/sisters in the Lord. If that is so then to ordaine some that is still guilty of sin, then that is a MOCKERY of Jesus and the plan of God.

I'm not one for a person to have to jump thru hoops in the ministry, but there is a need to make sure that the old wolf doesn't come in and destroy the flock.

BTW If they still support their old life, then some thing is wrong.

2 cents

Most people are aware of Sampson's fall due to his affair with Delilah...

Most know that Delilah wasn't his first girlfriend that wasn't a Jew.

BUT...

Most forget the fact that Sampson was a faithful Judge for 25 years before he went after Delilah.

That part gets really underplayed a lot.

No offense, but if you compare adultery to pedophila, you're daft.

As it relates to a pedophile being ordained, I don't care who Samson eventually committed adultery with or how long it was before he did it. And, God can call whomever He will to do His bidding -- that's not my call. All I know is I do not want my child in the presence of a pedophile, period, and would not want her under the watchcare of a guy who is a "former pedophile" (who, in my view, is a pedophile just the same).

Folks can go to church where or with whomever they want, but if I am at one and find out that anyone in any position of trust there is a pedophile, then "c u l8r".

dolfan Posted:
No offense, but if you compare adultery to pedophila, you're daft.

As it relates to a pedophile being ordained, I don't care who Samson eventually committed adultery with or how long it was before he did it. And, God can call whomever He will to do His bidding -- that's not my call. All I know is I do not want my child in the presence of a pedophile, period, and would not want her under the watchcare of a guy who is a "former pedophile" (who, in my view, is a pedophile just the same).

Folks can go to church where or with whomever they want, but if I am at one and find out that anyone in any position of trust there is a pedophile, then "c u l8r".

Dolfan I understand what you are saying, but it doesn't take away from the fact that God can't save and call anybody He wants. I hear you about the pedophiler part, but then if he had been an adulterer, would you want to keep him away from your wife. Point being that we want to categorizes different sins when its God's place to do that. Yes I think that I know how you would feel about this and don't blame you for that, all though I'm not sure that agree with your reasoning. Yes always watch someone with that kind of a history and never leave them in a compermising situation. As far as that goes don't leave anyone in a compermising situation. I've seen and heard of way too many go sour quick over the years.

BTW sometimes our pass can be another cross that we have to bear.

dolfan wrote:No offense, but if you compare adultery to pedophila, you're daft.

As it relates to a pedophile being ordained, I don't care who Samson eventually committed adultery with or how long it was before he did it. And, God can call whomever He will to do His bidding -- that's not my call. All I know is I do not want my child in the presence of a pedophile, period, and would not want her under the watchcare of a guy who is a "former pedophile" (who, in my view, is a pedophile just the same).

I have a child and I can relate, but what about a murderer? I was reading on a website recently where the senior pastor's testimony included imprisonment for murder. Before Paul's conversion, he had Christians killed believing he was doing God's service. I'm sure there were places that Paul visited later where red flags went up until they witnessed his "true change".

My question again relates to how can we be a church for ALL people?

pa

pa,
Can you give me the scripture that states that Paul (Saul) had anybody killed? I will not deny that he persecuted the the church, and therefore those that would become known as "Christians," but I can't seem to recall anywhere that he ordered the murder of anyone.


TW

Don't want to hijack the thread - but the subject brought to mind a question. Had a friend that told me of a church whose minister was accused (and only accused - as case was dropped) of trying entice a minor to have sex.

He is no longer the pastor of said church - but it is our understanding that the church was advised to increase their insurance should he decide to continue attending there. I hate to think of things getting this bad - but has anyone else heard of a church having to increase their insurance because a sex offender, etc. was attending?

TW wrote:pa,
Can you give me the scripture that states that Paul (Saul) had anybody killed? I will not deny that he persecuted the the church, and therefore those that would become known as "Christians," but I can't seem to recall anywhere that he ordered the murder of anyone.

Acts 8:1-3

We find in Acts 8:1 where Saul consented to Stephen's death. Then again, in verse 3, we find that Saul made havoc of the church.

There is much information in Acts 9 as well.

Acts 9:1 shares how that Saul breathed threats and slaughter against the disciples.

Acts 9:13 talks about how much evil Saul accomplished toward the saints.

Acts 9:21 talks of Saul destroying the disciples of the Lord in Jerusalem.

Acts 9:26 the disciples were still afraid of Saul, not believing him to be a true disciple.

These are just a few. I would think there are others. I have always heard preached and read in literature that Saul persecuted Christians and "had them killed".

I've never really questioned it.

pa

Acts 22:4

Paul states, "And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women."

Paul's own testimony seems to reveal the truth about his past persecution of the saints.

pastorables wrote:http://www.whas11.com/video/crimetracker-index.html?nvid=395583


Watch the linked video clip above.

This brings up interesting discussion concerning the question of can we truly become a church for ALL people? I understand that this particular church congregation has a large constituency of gay and transgender attendees.

I pray that discernment is used. The true goals of this be revealed.
If to win the lost, win, if to deceive.. then reveal asap.

dolfan wrote:No offense, but if you compare adultery to pedophila, you're daft.

As it relates to a pedophile being ordained, I don't care who Samson eventually committed adultery with or how long it was before he did it. And, God can call whomever He will to do His bidding -- that's not my call. All I know is I do not want my child in the presence of a pedophile, period, and would not want her under the watchcare of a guy who is a "former pedophile" (who, in my view, is a pedophile just the same).

Folks can go to church where or with whomever they want, but if I am at one and find out that anyone in any position of trust there is a pedophile, then "c u l8r".

I'm not comparing the two as being equal.

I was trying to draw a correlation that our sins are sometimes something of a burden that we have to bear. As we age the desires for unrepented sins can increase with time. Ever visit a retirement center and get to know the residents? They often are consumed by their wants and fears. The smooth surface of their demeanor has absolutly no relation to the war going on inside of their minds. Pornography, like many sexual sins, is progressive. Hard to understand until you find 70 and 80 year old men viewing child porn...completely addicted to it.

Sampson's first girlfriend was barely accross the Philistine border. Delilah was way, far into Philistine terrirory...a place where no Israelite should have been...much less a Judge/prophet of God.

Personally I consider pedophillia to be a worse sexual deviant behavior than any other...worse than even homosexuality...and homosexuality is a curse as stated by Paul...one that I don't think can be lifted.
Considering the sheer numbers of pastors and other church leaders who have been caught up into some kind of sexual sin...this is one church that I would never attend. Mainly because leadership is different than authoritative command. And I do not want anywhere near where this guy might lead me or anyone that I would call friend.

pa,
I understand how you could arrive at your conclusion. I also know that many teachers have taught that Paul killed the saints prior to his conversion. However does that make it the truth? The truth is that there is not a single verse that states that Paul actually had anybody killed, including your quote of Acts 22:4. One must remember that being sentenced to prison in those days was virtually a death sentence. Very few left prison alive. I have no doubt that Paul persecuted the early church, his own words attest to that. I have no doubts that he condoned the stoning of Stephen, and probably other believers. However to say that he murdered, or even order the killing of anyone calls for conjecture on your part.


TW