I was discussing this with a friend of mine

[Phil Hoover]

How did the COGOP lose an entire generation of people from its' membership? It seems like "my generation" basically left the denomination altogether...some have even forsaken their walk with the LORD.


How did that happen?

[Pastor Gary]

It's not just COGOP. I know lots of lapsed Catholics, lapsed Southern Baptists, lapsed... (you name it).

When kids graduate high school and leave home for University, military service and the like, a high percentage of them drop out of church and -- at least temporarily -- abandon their faith. I would suggest that their faith was so shallow and lacking in deep roots that there was little to hold them.

We (COGOP, et al) were big on programs and weak on giving children strong, deep roots in Christ.

[beckrl]

In the early times of the Church it was all about relationships. With the individual and God relationship, but as you have noticed some were along the way that changed.

http://www.cogop.org/320063.ihtml

[Rascal]

I think there is a great departure of discipline and committment in our society. Just look at the number of people who live togather and do not marry. This is one reason the divorce rate is slowing. In years past, mostly poor americans would have children, not marry the father and go on wellfare. Now, I personally know many middle class couples who are doing the same thing. Why not, someone else is paying and the couple live togather. No committment, not discipline, or accepting responsibility. This same spirit has moved into our church. Many are not disciplined to get up on Sunday morning, get the children ready and go to church. It takes an effort on a day off from work. Many will find excuses but will suffer somewhere down the line. Usually with some event of their children. If the sheep don't eat, they will die..........

[scooter]

How did the MOSES lose an entire generation of people from his membership? It seems like "my generation" basically left the denomination altogether...some have even forsaken their walk with the LORD.

[ImaPK]

I ain't touching this one again.

http://www.jude2.com/viewtopic.php?t=26369&start=30

[Phil Hoover]

So many of the people I've known in the Church of God of Prophecy (and I still have GREAT respect and admiration for the denomination) especially during my college years have LEFT the denomination.

Many of these same people have DEEP ROOTS in the organization...going back at least two generations.

That is what puzzles me. I understand the "lapsed Catholic" and "lapsed Southern Baptist" pieces of the puzzle--to a degree.

But I can think of a handful of people who were raised in the organization, have parents who were pastors/leaders in the denomination (and the parents, by and large, are still in the organization) but they have LEFT for one reason or another. A couple of them have just forsaken their relationship with God altogether. The real question must be: WHAT HAPPENED?

NO, I will not "name names" here. I love and respect my friends too much for that.

Instead of all the "planning for a church college" maybe the senior leadership in the COGOP should ask how the "hemorrhaging can be halted."

[scooter]

Instead of all the "planning for a church college" maybe the senior leadership in the COGOP should ask how the "hemorrhaging can be halted."

Response: Is not planning a Christ centered educational system for our young people, of the exact age you're complaining about losing, one way to attempt to stop losing people of that age group?

Seems like the senior leadership may have asked that question already.

How easy is it to stand outside an organization,with zero experience in leadership, and take pot shots at people trying to develop real solutions.

[dolfan]

I don't want to be heard as being glib about this. I know better. But, it seems pretty simple to me. People are, by and large, interested in themselves more than they are interested in anything else. Christian faith means esteeming the needs of others greater than one's own needs, and actually considering others as being more important than one's own self.

We see that in real life experience. People pursue that which gratifies them; what they crave is not love but the opposite of love. The faith offers love, but to know it you have to give it. Since Christian faith is offering what people do not want (I'm remembering Jesus' words that 'men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil', here), people flee from it.

Call it hardened hearts or whatever we will, brokenness before God and hardship of self-insufficiency before Him and real-life, face-to-face confrontation with one's own sinfulness and its consequences -- here and forever -- are necessary to bring people to change. All that, of course, IMHO.

[Bexter]

I believe that we are talking about two different things - Pastor Gary is right that the 20' something age group is dropping out of church and it is accross denominational lines - but I think What Phil was addressing is closer to my generation which is the 40's and 50 something age group Which I agree with him that so many have left our denomanation and I feel like the "Holiness and Hell'' mentality caused many just to give up - there was no concept of Grace back in the day. Imapk had a very good point that our churches would not let young people participate in leadership. I have noticed that with young people there is a window in the 12-15 year age group where they really want to participate and if the Church doesn't have a place for them they get to a place where they just don't want to anymore - after having been rejected so to speak.

[paul]

I believe that we are talking about two different things - Pastor Gary is right that the 20' something age group is dropping out of church and it is accross denominational lines - but I think What Phil was addressing is closer to my generation which is the 40's and 50 something age group Which I agree with him that so many have left our denomanation and I feel like the "Holiness and Hell'' mentality caused many just to give up - there was no concept of Grace back in the day. Imapk had a very good point that our churches would not let young people participate in leadership. I have noticed that with young people there is a window in the 12-15 year age group where they really want to participate and if the Church doesn't have a place for them they get to a place where they just don't want to anymore - after having been rejected so to speak.

I doubt that many, if any, will agree with me but here is my nickels worth
(inflalation from two cents worth)

Years ago I recall sitting in a college class and discussing the rise and fall of organizations. Something was mentioned that was indelabily stamped on my mind.

What was stated, was that in many organizations the founding fathers(leaders) are moved by a vision generally birthed out of frustration of the current status quo. They are moved with a passion, or what can be called a vision.

The organizatio grows and becomes successful. The following generation that takes the helm, generally does not carry the same degree of pasision or vision. They seem to walk oin the afterglow or success of their forefathers. Because of the lack of passion or vision the organization does not expand to the same degree. One might say that they walk by the letter of the law and not the spirit.

The third generation ( which would in my oponion the genration Phil is referring to) is to take the regins, but of an organization that lacks vision and direction, and in many cases has been plundered. They are not sactisified with the status quo and desire recapture the original purpose and vision of the organization but are held down. The orginal founders would have embraced these men of passion and vision, but the second generation see them as rebellious, and a threat to the status quo. So many are forced to look elsewhere in order to be true to the passion and vision that burns within them. Thus many will leave the organization of their forefathers and their youth, not to do their own thing, not to be out from under authority. But desiring to be true to their calling.

In 1985 when I was praying about leaving cogop, I was doing my CPE training at Pakland Memorial Hospital in Dallas. I remember my director, in a verbatim session asking me the following. " Paul, did you ever think that you might have to leave the Church oF God in order to really be Church of God." at the time is did not make much sense. But now it makes all the sense in the world and for me that is what truly happened.

[Rob]

Paul,

Very good and well put.

[Rascal]

It would be interesting to trace these who have departed COGOP. Where did they go? Are they in church at all, or have they just quit going to church. I wonder if COGOP leadership has these stats?

[oletimer]

Paul Wrote:


One might say that they walk by the letter of the law and not the spirit.

Paul I hear a lot about the "letter of the law" and then "the
spirit". I have always felt that if it is the real Spirit, then It ill be backed up by the letter of the Law. If the spirit is loose and free spirited and not backed by the word then that would surely cause many to seek something else.

From what I hear from some was that they heard one thing and saw something else. I don't think that was any one reason but really many, I left because of change in doctrine so maybe there is a lot to what that director said to you.

[ImaPK]

It would be interesting to trace these who have departed COGOP. Where did they go? Are they in church at all, or have they just quit going to church. I wonder if COGOP leadership has these stats?

I was raised in COGOP from the time I was six years old. My dad was a minister for many years with COGOP. I'm now living back in the town where I was when I QUIT going to church. Since 1973 I have probably been inside a church(including weddings and funerals)maybe 100-150 times. I'm "of" Phil's generation and if you click on the link on my previous post you'll understand why I'm not in church anymore.