Jude 2

I saw yesterday that the reports for the IA are online, anyone else read them or discussing them yet?

at one time I think we had a separate section for assembly discussions on here, but I don't see it now, so if I'm in the wrong place just let me know.

Evan though I am not apart of the cogop...I can agree with both statements as they are written. and I think they are both relevant for the times we are in

Can somebody provide a simple summary?

Pastor Gary wrote:Can somebody provide a simple summary?

one you have probably read, seems like we discussed about the Holy Spirit and manifestations (statement of affirmation, not decision).

In the Church of God of Prophecy, our roots lie in the Holiness-Pentecostal historical tradition that was anchored to biblical truth. If there is no evidence in our church services today to give witness to this outward manifestation of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, we will simply appear as imposters. On the other hand, when the Spirit is active among us, His anointing is obvious to unbelievers and will work powerfully in their hearts and lives.

one about bible translations, again a statement of affirmation, not decision.

In light of this urgent need of the harvest, we encourage our ministers to use appropriate translations in their preaching that will bring all people to the saving light of Jesus Christ. While we embrace the earlier translations referenced in the 1961 and 1971 Assembly rulings, we also want to encourage our ministers to use other legitimate and reliable translations to plant the seed of the gospel of Jesus into every hungry heart and nation of this world.

and the F&S doc, that I haven't read at all yet that will require proxy expression, and has 6 (if I count right) recommendations.

I read part of the F&S report, the part where they are recommending that bi-vocational pastor's send their tithes from their public job to the state office instead of paying it to the local church they pastor.

Many of the state offices are in financial trouble. I'm not bi-vocational but I have been in the past and but I'm not sure how many pastor's will want to send that tithe to their state office. Should be an interesting discussion.

what are the dates so I can see you all?

I see where they are pondering the idea of "taxes" the churches 13% with 6.5% going to IO and 6.5% to S/R/Offices. Guess we still don't understand that tithe is 10% anything above that IMO is a tax.

I agree with RamboPreacher, the two BDP reports are pretty standard, and I think easily will be agreed to (Maybe a few KJV only people might disagree, but I don't think it would be a big stir)

But the Finance one does raise some concerns to me.

With a number of churches already not sending in money to the IO, statistics showing Churches struggling and pastors paying the church bills, larger number of pastors having to work a second job to support their families, and the recommendations are to take money AWAY from the local church?

I am COMPLETELY in agreement that the State offices need some support, our SO is very transparent with the finances, and we are running on a balanced budget, but we've made many cuts to get there. It would be good to know whether IO have made similar cuts to reduce costs, and if more cuts could allow part of the tithes from local churches to go to the State offices. They say 5% to each would be too drastic, but I'll bet a 7%/3% would make a big difference to the States or something to better distribute and use the money already coming in, rather than asking more from struggling churches.

one love wrote:what are the dates so I can see you all?

July 27-August 1 in Greensboro, NC

I agree with you Rob...I never understood the "old" system where each got 10% and I don't get it now. Aren't we supposed to pay tithes to the storehouse? How is a state/national/regional office a storehouse.

I have always promoted the idea of 5% and 5%...I personally do not know of any pastor's who are having to work and pay church bills that will send their tithe to the state office.

Perhaps it is time to evaluate the effectiveness of the State office. It may be time to make innovate changes in the management of the church. Why could they not manage our local churches from 3 or 4 regional offices? Most local churches manage themselves anyway.

It has been my observation that the state bishop/overseer is a pastor's pastor and not much more. I have seen little service out of these men beyond serving our pastors. (I am not a minister). The few times I have contacted them, they referred me back to my pastor for direction.

If we did not have a state office, then we would not need a state staff, treasury, office space.....on & on. It would save $ that could be used for soul cultivation or maybe earth quake relief!

[quote="free"]I read part of the F&S report, the part where they are recommending that bi-vocational pastor's send their tithes from their public job to the state office instead of paying it to the local church they pastor.

They are asking for to much, if we teach the memebrship to pay thier tithes to the local church, and since the pastor is a member of the local church, his tithe belongs at the local church.

Many of the state offices are in financial trouble.
I'm not bi-vocational but I have been in the past and but I'm not sure how many pastor's will want to send that tithe to their state office.
Probally a lot more that won't, than will.

Should be an interesting discussion.[/quote]
yes it should.

[quote="Pastor Rob"]I see where they are pondering the idea of "taxes" the churches 13% with 6.5% going to IO and 6.5% to S/R/Offices. Guess we still don't understand that tithe is 10% anything above that IMO is a tax.[/quote]

amen, it's 10 %, no more, no less.

I still feel that it should be 5 % state, 5 % general.

As a pastor, I can say that the need for a "Pastor's Pastor" as you termed it is there. I am sure things vary state by state, but effective ministry does come from the state offices, to the pastors, and hopefully to the broader church as well.

You are right, it is on a broader scale, and most direct ministry is going to happen through the local church, I would say this is even more true of the IO, very little direct ministry to individual members is going to come out of Cleveland, but that's not really their purpose either.

Honestly budgets are tighter everywhere, and across the board we need to look at where our effectiveness is, and make sure the funds are there, cutting what is ineffective. If state offices are not providing relevant ministry, then by all means change them, but that's not really a funding issue as much as an effectiveness issue.

I see real ministry coming out of our state offices, both equipping leadership and ministry, as well as assistance with collaborative efforts and centralized events that are a real blessing. I also see the budget we are working with, and we've had to cut things to keep a balanced budget, but that's been done, and there is a real sense of cooperation.

I'm all for the 5% to each option, and if that's too big of a change, or too difficult to do quickly, a different split OF THE 10% TITHE would be reasonable either as a compromise or as a transitional step.

Rascal wrote:Perhaps it is time to evaluate the effectiveness of the State office. It may be time to make innovate changes in the management of the church. Why could they not manage our local churches from 3 or 4 regional offices? Most local churches manage themselves anyway.

It has been my observation that the state bishop/overseer is a pastor's pastor and not much more. I have seen little service out of these men beyond serving our pastors. (I am not a minister). The few times I have contacted them, they referred me back to my pastor for direction.

If we did not have a state office, then we would not need a state staff, treasury, office space.....on & on. It would save $ that could be used for soul cultivation or maybe earth quake relief!

I'm not sure where you are from, but as one of the Pastor's in KY our Overseer/State Bishop is more a lot more than just a Pastor's Pastor. So I would be in total disagreement with our local church being "managed" from let's say TN or AL. Besides that, our Overseer, doesn't "manage" us as Pastor's. In our state we have evaluated the effectiveness of the State Office and it is working here. Maybe it should be done at I/O and see how well they are doing. I get a lot more (support, encouragement, vital information etc.) from my State than I do I/O.

Just one more note, if a member contacted a State Bishop and they didn't refer that member back to the Pastor, I'm not sure that State Bishop would qualify as a Pastor's pastor! Just my $.02