Jude 2

beckrl wrote:What would you say is the meaning concerning "water"

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

3:5. Various views are given to explain Jesus’ words about being born of water and the Spirit: (1) The “water” refers to the natural birth, and the “Spirit” to the birth from above. (2) The “water” refers to the Word of God (Eph. 5:26). (3) The “water” refers to baptism as an essential part of regeneration. (This view contradicts other Bible verses that make it clear that salvation is by faith alone; e.g., John 3:16, 36; Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:5.) (4) The “water” is a symbol of the Holy Spirit (John 7:37-39). (5) The “water” refers to the repentance ministry of John the Baptist, and the “Spirit” refers to the application by the Holy Spirit of Christ to an individual.
The fifth view has the merit of historical propriety as well as theological acceptability. John the Baptist had stirred the nation by his ministry and stress on repentance (Matt. 3:1-6). “Water” would remind Nicodemus of the Baptist’s emphasis. So Jesus was saying that Nicodemus, in order to enter the kingdom, needed to turn to Him (repent) in order to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

beckrl wrote:It seems to me that the "water" aspect would lean toward baptism, and not of our fleshly brith. Why I say baptism, I would not be refering of the water baptism but of repentance that John peached unto "water" baptism.

John preached repentance and said that one was to come an baptize you with the Holy Ghost [Spirit], and fire. Matthew 3:11

So in an since Jesus is telling Nicodemus Except and man be born of "Repentance and of the Spirit", he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Having the fruits meet for repentance.

water and Spirit' to essentially signify regeneration--cleansing and transformation--ie. being born again

Tracy wrote:I studied this a few years back and learned that this does not refer to natural birth. D.A. Carson, in his outstanding commentary on John discusses and explains this expression:

There are no ancient sources that picture natural birth as 'from water.'

The parallelism with verse 3 is important. v. 5 "born of water and the Spirit" is parallel with v.3 --"born from above," which indicates that 'water and Spirit' is the same as 'born from above.' Thus 'water and Spirit" is a conceptual unity.

Jesus berates Nicodemus for not understanding thee things as Israel's teacher, so we must look to the Old Testament for help in understanding what it means...

When water is used figuratively in the O.T., it habitually refers to renewal or cleansing, especially when it is found in conjunction with spirit.

Cf Ez 36:25-27 where water and spirit come together so forcefully--the first to signify cleansing from impurity and the second to depict the transformation of heart that will enable people to follow God wholly.

Based on this information, I think it is probably accurate to interpret 'water and Spirit' to essentially signify regeneration--cleansing and transformation--ie. being born again (v.3). One must be born again to even see the kingdom of God (v.3), and one must be born of water and Spirit to enter into the kingdom of God (v.5).

Fascinating stuff!
Tracy

Water Baptism
Those who hold to a baptismal regeneration point to this verse as indicating that one is saved by the physical act of baptism. The problem is that the Scriptures are clear elsewhere to say that we are saved by grace through faith and apart from any outward ritualism such as circumcision or baptism.

An alternate view sees the water, not only in a literal sense, but also and primarily as symbolic for the cleansing power that is represented in baptism.

Physical Birth
This view sees Jesus as making a contrast between the physical birth versus the spiritual birth and identifies being "born of water" as a reference to the physical birth. One obvious weakness of this view is that there is no precedence (either Jewish or otherwise) for identifying physical birth with water. Over against this argument is Isaiah 48:1 that speaks of Israel coming from the waters of Judah (the KJV follows the literal Hebrew text).

The Word of God
This view looks to passages such as Ephesians 5:26 (cleansed by the washing of water with the word) and 1 Peter 1:23 (you have been born again... by the word of God) and sees this water as a reference to the Scriptures.

The Holy Spirit
This view translates the word "and" (kai) as "even" to say that one is born of water, even the Spirit. This view has the advantage of an Old Testament connection that would have been understandable to Nicodemus (Ezekiel 36:25-27 speaks of how God would sprinkle clean water and give a new heart and a new spirit to His people).