Commandments of Jesus

[beckrl]

Matthew 28:20

Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 John 5:1-3

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

[Pastor Gary]

Since Jesus was the God-man, co-equal with the Father, they would include all commandments from the Godhead, wouldn't they?

[scooter]

"You" makes it kind of personal too.

[beckrl]

What I was pondering was Jesus said, "that it is said of old" refering to the commandments of Moses, but Jesus said, "But I say"

Also it would be refering to things that Jesus gave them to observe, like the lord's supper, the braking of bread, and the like.

Just wondering

[Pastor Bill]

Well Christ said "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. "

then continued to say "And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

From the context here it seems everything hingest on these two things, all the law and teachings boil down simply to Loving God and Loving your neighbor.

He followed this toward the end of His earthly ministry with a new commandment "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." Taking the love of others up from just as you love yourself, to a self-sacrificing, unconditional Love that He exampled to us.

If we truly follow these things, I believe everything else will be in order.

[beckrl]

Right, that to me is the implication of "and his commandments are not grievous" That through his Love and Holy Spirit it's not hard are full of suffering to obey is commandments.

[dolfan]

"Grievous". What's that? We get some examples. Grievous is used to describe wolves set to destroy the flock, plagues, sores on those receiving the mark of the beast in Revelation, the whirlwind of God's judgment in fury on Israel. As far as I can see, grievousness is that manner and degree of pain and suffering wrought as a consequence evil upon the doers of evil; it is not (again, as far as I can tell) the suffering of those who obey God. That is a different sort of pain.

Now, there can be some overlap by perception; the chastening of the Lord seems presently grievous and not joyous, says Hebrews 12:11. The passage goes on to state that what that kind of pain yields, though, is the "peacable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby" (KJV). Most of us can attest to the sense of God's afflicting hand for the purposes of correction; I dare say, though, that few (if any) of us can truly speak of grievousness of any particular part of walking with God. Why? Because the hardships which the Bible painstakingly explores in the lives of the obedient are experienced with the hope of that same peacable fruit that those who are "exercised" or made stronger and abler by chastisement. Grievousness offers no such hope (again, as far as I can tell).

So, when I read that His commandments are not grievous, I don't quite get to the point of believing that through God's love and the Holy Spirit that obedience is not "hard" nor "full of suffering". Getting beheaded or thrown to the lions or sitting in a North Korean prison for conducting corporate worship qualify under both headings as far as I can see, and all of them are consequences of obeying His commandments and of knowing God's love and the Holy Spirit in that particular way of excruciating hardship.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the famous theologian who was hanged in a Nazi concentration camp, wrote from his prison cell that "You have granted me many blessings; let me also accept what is hard from your hand." He also wrote, "I can no longer condemn or hate a brother [or sister] for whom I pray, no matter how much trouble he causes me. His face that hitherto may have been strange and intolerable to me is transformed through intercession into the countenance of a brother for whom Christ died." And, "As a Christian I am called to treat my enemy as a brother and to meet hostility with love. My behavior is thus determined not by the way others treat me, but by the treatment I receive from Jesus." (He is a most compelling guy, so, here's another --- .) "His disciples keep the peace by choosing to endure suffering themselves rather than inflict it on others. They maintain fellowship where others would break it off. They renounce hatred and wrong. In so doing they over-come evil with good, and establish the peace of God in the midst of a world of war and hate." Now, say what we will about Bonhoeffer's views on war and pacifism, but we can't disagree with his experience and we'd be hard pressed to biblically dissent from these statements which are clear on the point that suffering while obeying is a distinctly and truly Christian way of life.

All that's not to be dismissive of your observation, beckrl. I just wanted to point out that while obedience is not grievous, it is hard and the hardship is due to God's love and the Holy Spirit shaping those of us who do suffer the worthy experience of being made like Jesus in suffering.

[Tracy]

John Piper wrote a book called, "What Jesus Demands From the World." You might find it helpful...

http://www.amazon.com/What-Jesus-Demand ... 594&sr=8-1

[oletimer]

Tracy wrote:

John Piper wrote a book called, "What Jesus Demands From the World." You might find it helpful...

John in the sevethteen chapter gives a good view about Jesus's stand concerning Him, the Church, and our relationship with the "world". Mighty good reading.

[beckrl]

"Grievous". What's that? We get some examples. Grievous is used to describe wolves set to destroy the flock, plagues, sores on those receiving the mark of the beast in Revelation, the whirlwind of God's judgment in fury on Israel. As far as I can see, grievousness is that manner and degree of pain and suffering wrought as a consequence evil upon the doers of evil; it is not (again, as far as I can tell) the suffering of those who obey God. That is a different sort of pain.

Now, there can be some overlap by perception; the chastening of the Lord seems presently grievous and not joyous, says Hebrews 12:11. The passage goes on to state that what that kind of pain yields, though, is the "peacable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby" (KJV). Most of us can attest to the sense of God's afflicting hand for the purposes of correction; I dare say, though, that few (if any) of us can truly speak of grievousness of any particular part of walking with God. Why? Because the hardships which the Bible painstakingly explores in the lives of the obedient are experienced with the hope of that same peacable fruit that those who are "exercised" or made stronger and abler by chastisement. Grievousness offers no such hope (again, as far as I can tell).

So, when I read that His commandments are not grievous, I don't quite get to the point of believing that through God's love and the Holy Spirit that obedience is not "hard" nor "full of suffering". Getting beheaded or thrown to the lions or sitting in a North Korean prison for conducting corporate worship qualify under both headings as far as I can see, and all of them are consequences of obeying His commandments and of knowing God's love and the Holy Spirit in that particular way of excruciating hardship.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer, the famous theologian who was hanged in a Nazi concentration camp, wrote from his prison cell that "You have granted me many blessings; let me also accept what is hard from your hand." He also wrote, "I can no longer condemn or hate a brother [or sister] for whom I pray, no matter how much trouble he causes me. His face that hitherto may have been strange and intolerable to me is transformed through intercession into the countenance of a brother for whom Christ died." And, "As a Christian I am called to treat my enemy as a brother and to meet hostility with love. My behavior is thus determined not by the way others treat me, but by the treatment I receive from Jesus." (He is a most compelling guy, so, here's another --- .) "His disciples keep the peace by choosing to endure suffering themselves rather than inflict it on others. They maintain fellowship where others would break it off. They renounce hatred and wrong. In so doing they over-come evil with good, and establish the peace of God in the midst of a world of war and hate." Now, say what we will about Bonhoeffer's views on war and pacifism, but we can't disagree with his experience and we'd be hard pressed to biblically dissent from these statements which are clear on the point that suffering while obeying is a distinctly and truly Christian way of life.

All that's not to be dismissive of your observation, beckrl. I just wanted to point out that while obedience is not grievous, it is hard and the hardship is due to God's love and the Holy Spirit shaping those of us who do suffer the worthy experience of being made like Jesus in suffering.

What I get out of that phrase is that the new commandment of "love" brings less hardship than that of the laws of Moses.

I'm reminded of Matthew 11:28-30 "Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."

[dolfan]

Finney said, "The precepts of the law and of the gospel are identical in spirit and in general character, neither requiring of us anything more than we can do, nor anything not in harmony with our reason," in making the broader point that God's laws are not grievous. With that, of course, is the Mosaic law. The NASB translates "grievous" as "burdensome" in 1 Jn. 5:3, which meshes nicely with your point that Jesus stated that His yoke is easy and His burden is light. The point of the law, and the weight of the burden, exist in our union with Christ. With that, I don't know that it means much to really contrast the commandment of Jesus to love against the commandments of God through Moses. Jesus is always and only the "greater than" when you compare Him to any of the prophets, as He said Himself. So, that essentially takes the question of contrasting the law and the gospel off the board. The sum total of it all is already stated: Christ.

The love of God is that we keep His commandments, said John. Solomon, of whom Jesus also said He was greater, said the same thing in Ecclesiastes ("let us hear the conclusion of the matter: fear God and keep his commandments for this is the whole duty of man."). Jesus said that, too: "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

When you break open the whole of the law as Jesus stated it (you know, love God, love each other), and examine all the parts that we find in the OT, they weren't grievous before Christ. They were pointing to Christ. And, they point us to Him today. So, even the law of Moses is not grievous; none of His commandments are.

His judgment will be, though, for many. But, that's for another day.

[beckrl]

Good points and I'll agree