Jude 2

Posted: **June 24th, 2010, 11:06 am**

It says where also our Lord was crucified. How do you understand that to be? Would that be Literal the city Jerusalem or would that be spiritually or symbolic of another city?

Please, given explaination and scriptures for your point of view.

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Thanks,

Posted: **June 24th, 2010, 12:07 pm**

I believe this is figurative/symbolic.

Sodom is a city that is no longer, Egypt is not even a city and the outskirts of Jerusalem is not really Jerusalem the city. There is no city that is Sodom and Egypt and Jerusalem. So where are the witnesses killed?

If Sodom is the pinnacle of sensuality and self-indulgence in the Bible, then Egypt is the pinnacle of oppression. Jerusalem would be the pinnacle of false religiosity, of false spirituality and deadness. all are about oppressing the People of God in various modes.

The "sensual" do not want to hear about restraint upon their sensuality. The oppressor does not want to hear talk about justice and a God who takes care of the needy and the poor. And the religious do not want to hear the Christians say there is only one way to God.

The point is that God’s witnesses are always liable to persecution. That is actually a theme found not only in Revelation. Jesus says something very similar in Matthew 23. When He speaks to the Pharisees and the scribes about the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders, He says, “All the righteous blood that has been shed on earth will come against the scribes and the Pharisees.”

bottom line - I think it/they are representative of the "everyplace", that is persecuting the Christian people. It's not about a particular place, but more about the ramifications therein. 2 cents, spent.

Posted: **June 24th, 2010, 1:11 pm**

RamboPreacher Posted:
I believe this is figurative/symbolic.

Sodom is a city that is no longer, Egypt is not even a city and the outskirts of Jerusalem is not really Jerusalem the city. There is no city that is Sodom and Egypt and Jerusalem. So where are the witnesses killed?

If Sodom is the pinnacle of sensuality and self-indulgence in the Bible, then Egypt is the pinnacle of oppression. Jerusalem would be the pinnacle of false religiosity, of false spirituality and deadness. all are about oppressing the People of God in various modes.

The "sensual" do not want to hear about restraint upon their sensuality. The oppressor does not want to hear talk about justice and a God who takes care of the needy and the poor. And the religious do not want to hear the Christians say there is only one way to God.

The point is that God’s witnesses are always liable to persecution. That is actually a theme found not only in Revelation. Jesus says something very similar in Matthew 23. When He speaks to the Pharisees and the scribes about the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders, He says, “All the righteous blood that has been shed on earth will come against the scribes and the Pharisees.”

bottom line - I think it/they are representative of the "everyplace", that is persecuting the Christian people. It's not about a particular place, but more about the ramifications therein. 2 cents, spent.

Although we don't agree on some things about the bible, I want you to know that I think that you did a good job on this post

Posted: **June 24th, 2010, 2:12 pm**

RamboPreacher wrote:I believe this is figurative/symbolic.

Sodom is a city that is no longer, Egypt is not even a city and the outskirts of Jerusalem is not really Jerusalem the city. There is no city that is Sodom and Egypt and Jerusalem. So where are the witnesses killed?

If Sodom is the pinnacle of sensuality and self-indulgence in the Bible, then Egypt is the pinnacle of oppression. Jerusalem would be the pinnacle of false religiosity, of false spirituality and deadness. all are about oppressing the People of God in various modes.

The "sensual" do not want to hear about restraint upon their sensuality. The oppressor does not want to hear talk about justice and a God who takes care of the needy and the poor. And the religious do not want to hear the Christians say there is only one way to God.

The point is that God’s witnesses are always liable to persecution. That is actually a theme found not only in Revelation. Jesus says something very similar in Matthew 23. When He speaks to the Pharisees and the scribes about the hypocrisy of the Jewish leaders, He says, “All the righteous blood that has been shed on earth will come against the scribes and the Pharisees.”

bottom line - I think it/they are representative of the "everyplace", that is persecuting the Christian people. It's not about a particular place, but more about the ramifications therein. 2 cents, spent.

That is very good. You bring out Matt.23 would you also relate that to the whore called babylon the great city.(Rev.18:24)?

Posted: **June 25th, 2010, 6:38 am**

RamboPreacher wrote:I believe this is figurative/symbolic.

Sodom is a city that is no longer, Egypt is not even a city and the outskirts of Jerusalem is not really Jerusalem the city. There is no city that is Sodom and Egypt and Jerusalem. So where are the witnesses killed?

Let me elaborate on my questions. If we take Sodom and Egypt to be spiritual references, which we should. And make an association with where our Lord was crucified would that not be a way to say that Jerusalem has become as Sodom and Egypt?

That way there is an connection of these cities with Jerusalem where indeed our Lord was crucified. Lets look at some references of Sodom to another city in the Old Testament.

Isaiah 1:1-11 Here we have Isaiah prophecy concerning the house of Judah in which he compares them with Sodom.

Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

Jude 1:5-7 Here Jude reminds them of God's dealings with unblieveing Israel, and wicked Sodom and Gomorrha.

I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Jeremiah 23:14 I have seen also in the prophets of Jerusalem an horrible thing: they commit adultery, and walk in lies: they strengthen also the hands of evildoers, that none doth return from his wickedness; they are all of them unto me as Sodom, and the inhabitants thereof as Gomorrah.

Now in this I'm not saying that the two witnesses would be killed in the literal streets of Jerulasem. Again we should read this as symbolic for I would also not take that the two witnesses are two individuals.

But what I believe is shown here is that Jerusalem through her false teachers [pharisees, scribes, prophets, and priest] is where our Lord was crucified. As told by Jesus that all the blood of the Prophets and wise men would be upon that generation that statement is also told by John in Revelation of the great city Babylon that has fallen.

Matthew 23:33-36 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

Rev.18:20,24 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Posted: **June 26th, 2010, 3:26 am**

Let me add that in John's vision he heard's an angel cry that the great city has fallen, Bablyon has fallen. That also would be symbolic of Jerusalem for in her is the blood of the prophets and saints. In this fall of this great city I believe is showing the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD. Jesus foretold of Jerusalem's destruction in which that generation would come all the blood upon.(Matthew 23:34-36, Matt.24:2)

Jude 2

Where also our Lord was crucified.

Where also our Lord was crucified.