Jude 2

I've got my own list of things that I require of band members which excludes many people, which is why I don't lead praise and worship. I'm afraid that my qualifications may be too strict on the musical side for a church setting.

That said, is there anyone on here who excludes praise and worship candidates? If so, what are your qualifications?

Qualifications: BREATHING

Musical excellence is the least qualification necessary. The most important qualification is for one to understand that praise & worship is not about music but a life style. When you have that, then the quest for excellence will be automatic and the praise and worship music will takes you into the very presence of God.

Music is sounds, and sounds that glorify God must come from the heart throught the voice, instruments, dance and rise as a sweet savor before the Lord.

So my qualifications are simple: A lifestyle of worship and a heart crying out praise and worship unti a living, loving God

Paul, I generally agree with you, but pragmatically realize that some of the worship CDs that bless people greatly have parts played by totally secular session musicians. The lead vocals, and sometimes backup vocals, are sung by worshippers, but not everyone on the recording meets your criteria.

I remember attending a seminar taught by RiCk Muchow, in which he related how he had hired studio musicians to fill slots in their worship band and loved and prayed them into the kingdom one by one. I can see his strategy as valid, because I have seen it work in my own team. I have watched as more than one musician moved from believing in Jesus to being passionate followers of Jesus as we used them in worship and discipled them.

Paul, I can see where you're coming from, and yes, I do think worshippers need a heart for God.

I've been noticing a push in churches for some REALLY strict rules for praise and worship teams. Google it online.

1) A lot of churches are requiring a lot more musical background. Requiring lessons for some.
2) If you miss practice, you don't play (PG, thank you for being understanding about that in your church. My schedule was just nuts.)
3) They're requiring longer and longer sit-ins before you even touch an instrument or open your mouth to sing. Some as long as 6 months. Sit-ins in the practices not just church.
4) They're requiring rotation off of the team.

I'm thinking these must be some pretty huge churches with the lists they have. Most of the places I've been were needing talent so bad that they took the approach Macuser suggested. You can breath? You're on the team.

The list of offenses they have that can get you kicked off of the teams is just utterly ridiculous. For example, they're taking people in sensitive situations off of the rotation when they need the church the most.

This is just a teeny tiny part of their qualifications, and what I listed is cut waaaayyyyy down.

I've been a paid musician with loads less requirements on me than these guys have. Trust me, after being paid to play nobody is going to get on a stage for free unless it's for something they really believe in. I can get paid to hear that I'm too loud or I didn't play the right song.

Why should musicians have to go through this on both sides for free? I don't see why anybody would want to be on a praise and worship team like that. There's no freedom to worship. Sounds more like micro-management to me.

Oh, and PG, Kalei and I still want to come back home. I really wanna see everybody... and yeah... get back up there with my guitar. I loved playing with the guys in Hawaii.

IF a member of the P&W team is a minister then shouldn't they be held to the same standards as teachers, pastors, evangelists? We don't allow anyone that breathes to fill these positions or at least we shouldn't.

My "Breathing" comment here was tongue and cheek. Yes I have witnessed it and had a fantastic time singing with all of them. The world didn't end and the church didn't implode.

Full quiver, these churches aren't paying these people. Pastors get paid. There's a big difference there. Plus, if you look at the goofy lists I saw, they're requiring more from the p&w team than they do from a pastor.

Take a licensed pastor. They get appointed. I've never seen one have to attended services, counseling sessions, hospital visits, sermon prep for six months before they can get the job. And like I said, even if we did require all the stuff they're requiring, they don't get paid. Why go through all that for free?

Don't get me wrong, I've shadowed people as a lay minister, but I was already on the ministry team and doing some of the stuff myself.

I suppose you are speaking of very specific churches.

Many pastors do not get paid, many p&w members do get paid.

Either way it's still ministry.

We have tryouts and spiritual interviews.

Full Quiver wrote:I suppose you are speaking of very specific churches.

Yes, but there are lots of them.

Many pastors do not get paid, many p&w members do get paid.

Are we talking senior pastors here? We may not be on the same page because I was talking senior pastors.

Either way it's still ministry.

Agreed. I just don't see anybody putting themselves through that to get on the team. Like I said, some of their requirements are just outrageous.

I suppose some requirements are outrageous but MANY places have no requirements except to be breathing and that's not really poking at Macuser's comment because that is the truth often. Seems like it's hard to find the happy medium between religion and anything goes.

As a musician and a pastor, I will say it is hard.

There is a balance between seeking high standards, and ministering to people (don't forget musicians need ministry too) and you don't want to discourage someone who may be aspiring to be further along than they are now either.

It also depends on how plentiful your musicians are to start with, having pastored a church where I was the only musician, and even few singers, there are times when someone who can just keep up and add a little something is a blessing, where as some of you may have enough of a multitude to be picky, some of us are just trying to keep things filled in. I have even considered offering free music lessons in order to try to build up some help! (My wife and I both have BA's in Music, unfortunately she is all vocal, and I haven't gotten her comfortable enough on any instrument to play in front of people)

The biggest reason for restrictions is because this is a form of ministry as many have said. Now, in the New Testament I find two words translated ministry.

diakonia and leitourgia

Both words have the connotation of servanthood.

Now, let's extend that definition of servanthood to everything that you could do to serve your church, community, people for God. All of those are ministry.

By extension, if I volunteer to mow the church yard, I'm a minister and should be held to these same qualifications. I should learn all about small engine repair, gas/oil mixtures, octane values of fuel, honing blades, flowers, shrubs, trees, etc. I should attend meetings on how the grass should be cut and when for... oh... let's say 3 weeks before I ever cut it. If I'm not qualified enough in small engine repair, the church should require that I take a secondary school course in small engine repair.

I think we'd be wading through a forest to get there. It's hard enough to find someone to mow without the restrictions.

I understand that we need to represent the church well, we need a heart for God, we need to grow in our knowledge of the area we're working in (or at least try to), etc. I wouldn't dream of arguing against that. In fact, I can even respect the church for giving a list of things that will get you removed. That way there's no shock when you're removed, and you don't take it personally. I even think that we would do well to come up with a list like this (well, not exactly like this but...) for anyone who expresses interest in any area of ministry. That would let people know exactly what was expected of them.

I also realize that some churches just don't have anyone (esp in this economy everyone working more than one job) with a schedule that allows them to cut the grass so they hire outside. I would hope that they would approach this the way Pastor Gary was talking about with p&w and just love them and disciple them into the kingdom.

That said, why not give people our list and take them on a probationary basis. Seeing how they actually work with other people is the only way to see what they can really contribute to a group or the church as a whole. That also opens the doors where smaller churches can use outside musicians for a time until the p&w can be filled with musicians (or mowers) with a heart for God.

We REALLY need a place to post these restrictions so everyone knows what they are before hand. Pastor Gary did a version of this with a ministry board we had at one time. I don't know if he still does this, but I loved it. Everyone knew where it was and what we were looking for. Any rules were posted where you placed the volunteer sheets, and PG annouced where the board was before or after every service. It works great like that. Just a suggestion. It comes out better if you display your rules before someone volunteers for the job. The way things are presented makes all the difference in the world. We can appear to love and welcome, or we can appear to have a personal problem with and push away. It's our choice.

Honestly, I think this push to list our expectations is a great idea as long as our requirements are reasonable. An idea that could be used by us to extend our love and impartiality to any volunteers we might have, and it could be used to help hurting people by offering a way to remove them without making it personal. If they know the rule ahead of time, they have no reason not to expect to be removed. No hurt feelings, and it also protects us legally esp if we keep the rules the same across the board for different volunteer positions. If a couple is having marital problems and that's one of our rules, they both get removed at once from whatever position. No questions asked. That's fair, and we may be able to minister to both parties that way.