Jude 2

I've been pondering on this for a long time. Your thoughts would interest me. With the super domestic spying apparatus that the news announced this week for America, and the ever-increasing hostility to Christianity in American culture, might we be so very close to the need for Christians to begin to plan to meet in homes as opposed to larger congregational meeting places?

I believe the coming economic disasters will force Americans to "re-think" church.

With the national deficits on the rise (under EVERY President--not just Barack Obama), I firmly believe (and pray it is not so) that charitable organizations/nonprofits organizations (such as local churches) will soon lose their tax-exempt status.

When that happens, all giving to local churches will become NO LONGER TAX DEDUCTIBLE, and that single fact alone will cause many local churches to disband.

I pray this isn't the case, but I fear it will be...

The church is who we are, not where we go.

I would rather fight.

But, everybody's gotta be somewhere, Rambo. What do you all think about the likelihood of near to medium term pressures making a shift in meeting places or meeting methods likely?

dolfan wrote:But, everybody's gotta be somewhere, Rambo. What do you all think about the likelihood of near to medium term pressures making a shift in meeting places or meeting methods likely?

the relevancy is already changed, not because of gubbamint mandate, but for other reasons. I can only guess based on regional worldviews.

i think that at least around here, we hav elost the sense of the "mission". i don't meant that in the sens of the typical understanding of what a mission is or mission outreach. rather, in a more theological-historic context.

the catholic church of the first centuries, had an idea that I think we think is happening, but I don't think is relevant. let me explain a bit with how I understand that worldview from the 4-about the 6th centuries of the work of the mission. they didn't take their language, culture and biased worldview to the field and expect them to conform to that.

Instead, they would take Jesus to them. they would go to the field (read as; another country, state, city, neighborhood). live a Christian life as best they could and learn the cultures and philosophy's and their bias and worldviews and then introduce Christ to them in a way that is real, relevant and with emphasis on transformation, rather than ritual.

there was no watering of the Gospel, or compromise, it was "translated". Christianity has no privileged language. it has always been and should always be a translated belief/tradition/religion. What I am saying is that when we expect "the world" to conform to what we interpret as "church", it may happen - I do not doubt God's power and the Holy Spirit leading.

I guess that for me, I see it more about adapting what we think as "going to church", and making it relevant to those that need the church in their life. no, the church isn't going to bring salvation, but my ecclesiolgy has soteriology and ecclesiology linked in some ways.

I have hinted at this in the doctrine thread about seeker churches and where the line is to be drawn at the negative context when there is no definitive line of heresy.

Our protestant understanding of the church has taken us so far away from being the church into something that is particular and specific. we don't talk about the church any more, we talk about our church, their church, and churches. look in the yellow pages under church, and then ask yourself how the "outsider" sees us? is it a unity? one body of Christ?

John 17th chapter gives them permission to judge us based on that unity as to whether we are in Christ, and therefor from God or not. that sanctification and unity are outward expressions that the so that "...the world may believe that You sent Me." (vs21)

anyway, rambling now...

I guess all that to say that I don't think it matters where we worship Him. it matters more that we worship Him. and YES, I do believe that it should be in fellowship, and not just familial extremities. home churches, meting at the local hotel meeting rooms, a special building designated as church, wherever. I think we place too much emphasis on edifice, and not enough on the church.

Seems to me that maybe last year or sometime a while back a group and I believe in Ca.was meeting for for mid week services at a home and they were fined because it wasn't zoned for that type of use or sometime like that.

Phil Hoover wrote:I believe the coming economic disasters will force Americans to "re-think" church.

With the national deficits on the rise (under EVERY President--not just Barack Obama), I firmly believe (and pray it is not so) that charitable organizations/nonprofits organizations (such as local churches) will soon lose their tax-exempt status.

When that happens, all giving to local churches will become NO LONGER TAX DEDUCTIBLE, and that single fact alone will cause many local churches to disband.
I pray this isn't the case, but I fear it will be...

If this is the case...then no wonder most don't see a blessing on their giving...they are not giving from the heart, only the Law. If we give from the heart then tax credit or not the amount should not change for the local church.

paul wrote:

Phil Hoover wrote:I believe the coming economic disasters will force Americans to "re-think" church.

With the national deficits on the rise (under EVERY President--not just Barack Obama), I firmly believe (and pray it is not so) that charitable organizations/nonprofits organizations (such as local churches) will soon lose their tax-exempt status.

When that happens, all giving to local churches will become NO LONGER TAX DEDUCTIBLE, and that single fact alone will cause many local churches to disband.
I pray this isn't the case, but I fear it will be...

If this is the case...then no wonder most don't see a blessing on their giving...they are not giving from the heart, only the Law. If we give from the heart then tax credit or not the amount should not change for the local church.

I don't see the tax deduction as the problem (this won't prevent our people from giving), but the loss of property tax exemption, business tax exemption, etc is potentially much more impactful. It will simply be much more expensive to to do "church business."

no
all though there maybe more people show up for it if there is comfortable lazy boys and remote controls.

http://www.chinaaid.org/

I recommend reading the first few articles about persecution of house churches over Christmas and the one about the influence of house churches on the nation.

dolfan wrote:http://www.chinaaid.org/

I recommend reading the first few articles about persecution of house churches over Christmas and the one about the influence of house churches on the nation.

To say that the Apex of Christianity is shifting to the south (latin America) and the east (Asia) would be an understatement. Watch in the next few years as more and more house churches come to the surface. The impact that the underground church is having is monumental, it would have been even greated had the foriegn missionaries help reach the lost instead of trying to convert people to their denomination and doctrine. Their is also a great moving in the "Three Self Church" as well.

Awsome reading material is " The Heavenly Man" by Brother Yun and Paul Hattaway...available at amazon. Be prepared to read it at one setting.....

Nancy and I leave January 7th for three weeks in Burma and China ministerig and teaching in our bible colleges and conducting one graduation in Burma. The school in Burma has been shut down three times by the government, but in spite of persecution and hardship more than 30 students completed their studies and will be launched as church planters.

Just finished listening on the radio (over a couple of weeks or so) on BBN the reading of "My Heart In His Hands", the story of Adoniram and Ann Judson (whom Alabama's Judson College is named after), early Baptist missionaries to Burma. Incredible story. The book is a compilation of her memoirs.

dolfan wrote:Just finished listening on the radio (over a couple of weeks or so) on BBN the reading of "My Heart In His Hands", the story of Adoniram and Ann Judson (whom Alabama's Judson College is named after), early Baptist missionaries to Burma. Incredible story. The book is a compilation of her memoirs.

Had the priviledge to attend the church Adoniram Judson founded in Yangoon. Nancy and I just received our our visa's for Burma and China this will be my theird trip to Burma but my first to China.