Jude 2

I butted heads with a family member recently (imagine that!) because they grabbed a scripture out of Psalms which was obviously about Christ and was proclaiming it was about them and their situation.


Shortly: That is a prime example of Narcissitic Eisegesis: Saying that scripture is all about YOU, YOUR situation and what YOU are doing.

This should be a familiar concept to COGOP after the use of Isaiah 60:1 "Arise Shine for thy light is come....." to say it was about a bunch of back holler hillbillies.

Narcissitic Eisegesis is evident when people preach, teach or believe scripture in such a way that ONLY "What it means about me" is emphasized.

I think a good question would be are there OT scripture which we can bring forward into NT living and then if so which ones?

scooter wrote:I think a good question would be are there OT scripture which we can bring forward into NT living and then if so which ones?

The question is HOW. It can NOT be a willy nilly pick and choose:

Choosing to pick Jeremiah 29:11 (For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future) and say its about ME the Believer (when context says it's about Israel) and NOT choosing to pick "Go and sell all you have and give to the poor."

What is the criteria?

Well we KNOW the criteria dont we? Did the preacher have an awesome worship band for warm up.

When the HOTTEST PEntecostal around preaches Jesus having Gold brought to him on camels when he was in the manger means we will have riches brought to us after our low times......SOMEONE NEEDS TO STAND UP AND SAY THIS IS BULL!

The stories in scripture are NOT about miraculous things God WILL DO for us!

I'll do it for you if you need help.

I full well "get" where you come from.

We must pick and choose!

I know there's no way to win this argument with you since you've convinced yourself.

Happy Fathers Day!

The NT church operated through the understanding of the OT as their Bible. When they searched the scriptures they searched the OT. They didn't even have the NT. Which I know you know but you have to understand that if the OT talks about the "people of God" are you trying to tell me God's plans for the OT Israel outshines the NT church?

If you read in the NT you will find that the things Israel went through they went through for our benefit.

It's hard for me to identify with your position.

If you read some commentaries they relegate the virgin birth to a young lady? Wow what a sign?

I love to pick and choose. It almost feels right like having faith that the Lord is My shepherd as well as David's. That the Lord can search me and see if there is any wicked way in me. That he can purge me also.

I really feel sorry for the individual who relinquishes the promise land to OT saints.

scooter wrote:I'll do it for you if you need help.

I full well "get" where you come from.

We must pick and choose!

What method of hermenutics is this? Billy bob makes a snap seat of his pants descision on what makes him feel good about himself?

And a person is supposed to order their life around that? [Didnt you experience something similar with the oinos oikos thing or whatever it was??]

scooter wrote:I know there's no way to win this argument with you since you've convinced yourself.

It is unwinable because it is logically ironclad. When you begin to pick and choose what criteria do you use? And why is YOUR criteria better than anyone elses? If there is no criteria then you have absolute chaos! Which come to think of it is WHY we have pentecostalsim today Jakes gold bearing camels, Duplatis' Adam was the creator, Creflos Jesus wasnt God, and Stoneds Withstanding Offense.

Jokers picking and choosing.

You want to be one of them? Go for it.

scooter wrote:Happy Fathers Day!

And to you

scooter wrote:The NT church operated through the understanding of the OT as their Bible. When they searched the scriptures they searched the OT. They didn't even have the NT. Which I know you know but you have to understand that if the OT talks about the "people of God" are you trying to tell me God's plans for the OT Israel outshines the NT church?

OH I thought they applied the OT about Jesus and one about the outpouring of the HS. What scripture did they usew about themselves??????????

scooter wrote:If you read in the NT you will find that the things Israel went through they went through for our benefit.

BENEFIT does NOT mean ABOUT us. Apples and oranges.

scooter wrote:It's hard for me to identify with your position.

Because you have been inculcated with the "all about me" theology from the git go. After all the cultic legalistic things have passed away its all thats left.

scooter wrote:If you read some commentaries they relegate the virgin birth to a young lady? Wow what a sign?

I fail to see how this addresses the issue...it seems to just be a scatter shot designed to impugn without actually engaging the topic at hand.

scooter wrote:I love to pick and choose. It almost feels right like having faith that the Lord is My shepherd as well as David's. That the Lord can search me and see if there is any wicked way in me. That he can purge me also.

It is the carnal nature of your heart to choose the good passages and ignore the other. He can also allow you to be stoned and crucified upside down, burned at the stake or tortured for Christ. Pick and choose all you wont it WILL NOT help you if GOD DECIDES to make that your life!!!

scooter wrote:I really feel sorry for the individual who relinquishes the promise land to OT saints.

I have no idea what this is even supposed to mean. It sounds like religious gobbledygook designed to convey spiritual superiority.

Gerald wrote:
What method of hermenutics is this? Billy bob makes a snap seat of his pants descision on what makes him feel good about himself?

And a person is supposed to order their life around that?

Response: Possibly Holy Spirit led?

Gerald wrote:It is unwinable because it is logically ironclad. When you begin to pick and choose what criteria do you use? And why is YOUR criteria better than anyone elses? If there is no criteria then you have absolute chaos! Which come to think of it is WHY we have pentecostalsim today Jakes gold bearing camels, Duplatis' Adam was the creator, Creflos Jesus wasnt God, and Stoneds Withstanding Offense.

Response: How did you jump from taking a scripture from the OT that may or may not apply to a NT faith and make this about making stuff up or WOF?

Gerald wrote:Jokers picking and choosing.

You want to be one of them? Go for it.

Response: Thanks. I feel better knowing I have your approval to read and interpret the Bible for myself.

Gerald wrote:OH I thought they applied the OT about Jesus and one about the outpouring of the HS. What scripture did they usew about themselves??????????

Response: So you can look at scripture and say it applies to us but be arguing how can one say scriptures apply to us? Ironclad??

Gerald wrote:BENEFIT does NOT mean ABOUT us. Apples and oranges.[

Response: So gathering relevance for us is not about us? Logical??

Gerald wrote:Because you have been inculcated with the "all about me" theology from the git go. After all the cultic legalistic things have passed away its all thats left.

Response: What?

Gerald wrote:I fail to see how this addresses the issue...it seems to just be a scatter shot designed to impugn without actually engaging the topic at hand.

Response: I think that the relevance is you have people on both side of issues who attempt to make the Bible say things it doesn't.

Gerald wrote:It is the carnal nature of your heart to choose the good passages and ignore the other. He can also allow you to be stoned and crucified upside down, burned at the stake or tortured for Christ. Pick and choose all you wont it WILL NOT help you if GOD DECIDES to make that your life!!!

Response: Let God be God. I'm okay with that. I don't ignore any passage, some might. You might rephrase that to say someone's heart. My heart is not carnal and you don't know it. Not afraid of what God decides to do.

Gerald wrote:I have no idea.

Response: Sorry couldn't resist.

Are we as Christians not grafted into "Israel"?

Full Quiver wrote:Are we as Christians not grafted into "Israel"?

Response: Now don't go making sense or drawing conclusions from scripture unless you ask Gerald first. Wait I'm sorry maybe you got his ok by PM. If so I'm sorry.

A better question, are we one with Christ?

One at a time

scooter wrote:

Gerald wrote:
What method of hermenutics is this? Billy bob makes a snap seat of his pants descision on what makes him feel good about himself?

And a person is supposed to order their life around that?

Response: Possibly Holy Spirit led?

Wait a minute. Is this the same Holy Spirit that worked with all the Mediums and Psychics at Azuza Street to make a great Revival?

Or the Holy Spirit that said Tomlinson was in the Bible? and that COGOP was the only real church?

Or the HOly SPirit that said one thing on one side of the Assembly Hall and another on the other side?

Which Holy Spirit are you talking about?

The one that makes you FEEL good?

SO I FEEL good about something and YOU FEEL good about something: WHich is truth?
Which was inspired by the REAL Holy SPirit?

So JOe on the left side of the assembly hall says this scripture is about me and Bob on the other side says THIS scripture is about ME...and they BOTH claim to be Holy Spirit led.

CHAOS.

The scripture can mean anything or nothing is such an environment.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


Response: It ain't my idea.

The funny thing is the whole time you are bent against other's opinion of scripture you hold your own opinion which is based on other's opinions.

Keep on truckin brother.

Hey I do understand how that people take and make scripture say things it doesn't say and maybe even to the point of a "scripture" not being written to or about someone. I'm just not throwing the baby out with the bath water and looking at the OT as simply irrelevant peotry like some.

scooter wrote:John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.


Response: It ain't my idea.

The funny thing is the whole time you are bent against other's opinion of scripture you hold your own opinion which is based on other's opinions.

Keep on truckin brother.

Hey I do understand how that people take and make scripture say things it doesn't say and maybe even to the point of a "scripture" not being written to or about someone. I'm just not throwing the baby out with the bath water and looking at the OT as simply irrelevant peotry like some.

Again you miss the point, fail to engage the topic run to sanctimoniousness and mis-state what I believe in order to feel superior.

And I see that. And I dont mind calling you on it

Yes the scripture says that he will guide you into truth.

BUT THATS WHAT EVERYONE CLAIMS!!! EVERYONE.

WHy is YOUR truth more true than anothers truth?

And the answer is: You've no way to tell because NOW the Bible can mean anything and everything to everybody.

And no one wants to be held accountable.

Gerald wrote:

Again you miss the point, fail to engage the topic run to sanctimoniousness and mis-state what I believe in order to feel superior.

You really don't know your brother at all.

Shellie wrote:Gerald wrote:

Again you miss the point, fail to engage the topic run to sanctimoniousness and mis-state what I believe in order to feel superior.

You really don't know your brother at all.

Only going by what he posts here, Swiping at me about "Jewish Poetry" when he hasnt got a clue what I meant by the statement and dosent care one whit to find out.

Plainly He wouldnt accept a drop of wisdom from me if he was burning in unwise hell.

Gerald wrote:

Shellie wrote:Gerald wrote:

Again you miss the point, fail to engage the topic run to sanctimoniousness and mis-state what I believe in order to feel superior.

You really don't know your brother at all.

Only going by what he posts here, Swiping at me about "Jewish Poetry" when he hasnt got a clue what I meant by the statement and dosent care one whit to find out.

Plainly He wouldnt accept a drop of wisdom from me if he was burning in unwise hell.

Response: The irony of your whole post is the me centered nature of you getting to be the gatekeeper of scriptural interpretation.

How much more me centered can one get.

The scripture sets examples of good people disagreeing. Who doesn't think they are right?

You thinking you know, or someone you have heard knows which OT scriptures to isolate into no longer being a relevant Word of God is still human based understanding.

Iron clad??

The way issues are resolved should be through brotherhood fellowship with the Spirit and reasoning.

I've said before when you treat people, talk to people and think in your heart that everyone else is stupid, jerks etc. There is no "fellowship" from which to sharpen your iron.