darylscook wrote:Pastor Gary wrote:darylscook wrote:Pastor Gary wrote:RamboPreacher wrote:I still don't get what the number of expressions represented. there were only just over 400. that is a max of about 40,000 (keeping easy round numbers), and as I understood, was really a number about half that.
that is only a tiny percentage of the 1.5 mil. of the church. were there no proxy's sent in that weren't represented on the floor?
Want a blunt, frank answer? At the international grass-roots level the actions and decisions of this meeting are not seen as quite as vital and important as some in the U.S. might feel. I mean no offense by that — just speaking reality. Folks in many places are just kind of "meh" about the whole thing.
Are these overseas local churches going to either:
1. Budget a monthly amount for TC
2. Conduct one or more annual fundraisers for TC
3. Receive a promotional offering for TC on the last Sunday of May, each year.
Just curious.
Okay -- man, you're going to lose me some friends and get me in trouble here...
TC? It is part of our history, but not likely to be part of our future. The nostalgia for TC is not widely shared. When we were centered on exclusivist ecclesiology it made some sense to "need our own" college. The extensive opportunities available today in Christian higher education make TC a moot point. It is far better to do what we have done with Gordon-Conwell, in my view — make an alliance and use existing institutions.
Aaah, that is the crux of my question.
Did it not matter b/c it won't be something they do either way? I was not for it, but I figured it would pass.
(Yes, this is a "hit-and-run" return of Mat)
Darlyscook,
On February 13, 2012, according to the letter from the General Overseer's office that accompanied the packet, the proxy info and reports for the upcoming International Assembly were mailed. My local church did our “due-diligence” in completing the proxy votes and forms within the time frame allotted. The proxy form was sent in and acknowledged by the International Offices. Remember, we were only making expression on one report (TC offering) and the larger Tithing Report was not presented to the Assembly for vote, it was placed in the minutes by “edict”.
As the proxy representative for my church I arrived a day early (Tuesday, July 24th) for a “Mission Meeting” on Tuesday evening and to be ready to pick-up up my voting card on Wednesday before the business.
On Wednesday, July 25th, the TC Report was given without change or comment and voted on. Interestingly, my proxy card did not work. I handed it to another pastor to try it in several different “voting machines” and it did not work. I tried to get someone’s attention but we had already moved on in the “business”.
Wednesday evening, to the best of my memory, there was no mention of a “change” of direction in the structure of TC during the Annual Address.
On Friday morning, July 27th, as per a letter dated April 16, 2012, from the General Overseer’s Office, requesting that a special offering be received called, “Tomlinson Center Assembly Offering”. I asked my church for such an offering and gave our check during that offering. Again, no mention was made concerning any changes to the direction of TC though the implies a campus based church college.
There was no mention of changes to the direction of TC in the Friday night service that were focused on Leadership development, nor was there any announcement to the TC Alumni at their gathering Saturday afternoon.
On Sunday morning during the “appointments” there was no explanation as to the dissolving of the Tomlinson Center Board or the creation of the new Tomlinson Center Advisory Committee (with a slate of new committee members).
Darlyscook, you are right in your assessment, it did not matter and it does not matter.
Pastor Gary,
You are a member of the International Presbyters (as an Overseer) so your opinion does matter, and I would say that your opinion on TC is the current position held by the International Presbyters and the General Presbyters, as well as those at the International Offices. That’s fine, you’re in charge and you can do as you please. If there is a vision for the future of the organization concerning education and it does not include a TC campus, that’s fine. Its your world not mine.
However, I have made a formal request to the leadership of the Church of God of Prophecy on behalf of the Tomlinson family that the name “Tomlinson” be removed from all “church” institutions. Since the vision of M.A. Tomlinson and the past General Assemblies who authorized the establishment of TC was of a campus based accreted Christian liberal arts college the Church of God of Prophecy should not be “bound” by the use of the name, nor should the denomination use the name as a merchandizing or fund raising “tool”. I first made this request concerning the college back in the 1990s before its “improper” demise that cost 40 staff their jobs and hundreds of students their plans.
I renewed the request when the college was started back up, including multipule contacts with the Fishers and the TC Board. However, I relented on the use of the Tomlinson name due to their request to use the name. Now for the third time in twenty years I have again requested that since the vision for the future does not encompass the original vision that the name “Tomlinson” be retired to the history books.
Just to be clear (for all you Tomlinson haters) the descendents do not want the name used anymore then you do. Let the ministry of the Tomlinsons be debated in an historical context, fine. If you want to blame them for your “bitterness” due to your upbringing in the COGOP, fine. If on the other hand, you feel what they stood for is right, still, don’t use their name; stand on your own merits.
The Church of God of Prophecy owes nothing to them, not honor or allegiance. You are free! Free to go or stay, free to complain or praise, but you are asked not to use their name to raise money are justify your own ministry. Back in the 1990s a deacon of a church I was pastor of told me how he and the former pastor would laugh and make jokes about an old picture of A. J. Tomlinson that was in the church attic. That’s fine, their free to do that, everybody is, but why not just throw the old pictures out and move on?
I promise you, the only thing I will oppose is the continued us of the name Tomlinson on any denominational institution. I do discourage any financial support or giving to those institutions so named.
Pastor Gary, and everybody else who feels bound by the past, help me set this church free by “retiring” the Tomlinson name from active use. I know it will set their family free.
Mat
Michael H. Edwards
