COGOP Leadership Transition

[Rascal]

I have thought about the committment that is required for the office of GO. This has to be massive and very time consuming. Think about how much time you would be away from your family. The committment in the office, travel, prayer, sermons, and last but not least, damage control. You are expected to be the leader and set the pace for the church. It's growth or decline in measured on your watch. That is not fair, but it is the way we measure the success of our leaders. What a heavy burden/committment to bear. Whoever gets the call, I hope he/she is in a position that will allow them to serve with minimal impact on their family. Perhaps someone who has grown children. I know it is hard to "blueprint" someone for this job. We try, but God has someone somewhere.

[paul]

I have thought about the committment that is required for the office of GO. This has to be massive and very time consuming. Think about how much time you would be away from your family. The committment in the office, travel, prayer, sermons, and last but not least, damage control. You are expected to be the leader and set the pace for the church. It's growth or decline in measured on your watch. That is not fair, but it is the way we measure the success of our leaders. What a heavy burden/committment to bear. Whoever gets the call, I hope he/she is in a position that will allow them to serve with minimal impact on their family. Perhaps someone who has grown children. I know it is hard to "blueprint" someone for this job. We try, but God has someone somewhere.

I agree with you, and join in your prayer. But It's called Leadership, and it always comes with a price. As important as it is for the person in leadership to be able to accept the responsibility, it is as important, if not more so that the church hold him up constantly in prayer and be of help and service in every way possible.

[scooter]

Hey wait! Where's the long haired guy from Georgia?

[Rascal]

Today, I heard members suggesting that maybe now is the time to merge with COG if they are ever going to do it.

[Billy n NC]

What is Bishop H. E. (Bubba)Cardin doing these days.

[Pastor Gary]

Today, I heard members suggesting that maybe now is the time to merge with COG if they are ever going to do it.

I am pretty confident that it will never happen.

[Billy n NC]

Today, I heard members suggesting that maybe now is the time to merge with COG if they are ever going to do it.

I am pretty confident that it will never happen.

The Subject keeps popping up here on J2 only. Agree with you Pastor G.

Not saying it can't, but etremely doubtful....

[Pastor Bill]

I started in the CoG, and really wanted to see that happen 10 years ago or so, but I agree with PG, it's not going to happen.

1. Leadership would have to step aside, yes some of our leaders would be welcomed into new roles with the CoG, but size wise most of our leadership would get swallowed up.

2. Culture, the two churches share a lot of common history, but the CoGoP has a much more family feel (which comes with good and bad points) the larger organization is too large for that to have survived to the same degree.

3. Roots, we have many old school who would never submit to "leaving" the CoGoP and joining the CoG, which is basically what it would appear as to them. A merger would cause more splinter groups to break away.

[Rascal]

You are correct when you indicate that the leadership would probably not let it happen for fear of losing their position. I would like to point out that the majority of the leadership I see is over 55. How long do they plan on keepng these jobs?

I don't see, here in Chattanooga, the loyality of the membership to COGOP like we did 20-30 years ago. You must see it where you are. I don't see our members leaving because of a merger. The doctrine is the same in most eyes.

My concern is that there is a possibility that COGOP could bankrupt and lose everything. A merger would prevent that.

Could it be said that the leadership is only thinking of themselves? I believe that is called selfishness.

[Pastor Bill]

I don't think the loyalty to the organization would be an issue in my local church either, but we have some in the US, and many overseas from what I have been told that are very loyal in those regards.

The debt/bankruptcy issue really would be more of a strike against merger. Would the CoG really want to take us on if that is a real concern?

[scooter]

My concern is that there is a possibility that COGOP could bankrupt and lose everything. A merger would prevent that. .

Response: What information leads to that concern? That's the same old tired line the guy down the road used to take his church independent 15 years ago. Well that and that the CoG was ordaining homosexuals.

[Pastor Gary]

You are correct when you indicate that the leadership would probably not let it happen for fear of losing their position. I would like to point out that the majority of the leadership I see is over 55. How long do they plan on keepng these jobs?

I am cracking up over here reading Rascal tossing out accusations without facts, making assumptions and providing Monday entertainment. Seriously??? You think "the leadership would probably not let it happen for fear of losing their position"? Are you aware that all of the sitting General Presbyters eliminated their names from consideration as General Overseer? All of them. 100%. In writing. Does that smell like ambition and clinging to power to you? As to the age of our leadership: do you really think Gabriel Vidal, Ben Feliz and Stephen Masilela look like guys ready for retirement?
http://cogop.org/about/leadership.html

Take a look at COG leadership and tell me they look a lot younger.
http://www.churchofgod.org/index.php/le ... ve_council

The United States Congress is older than 55: average age of 57 in the House and 63 in the Senate, with some sitting members in their 70s. The average age of an American male today is now around 80. The 55 year old age cut-off for effective service is ridiculous, cutting out a lot of experience and wisdom we need. I say that as a leader who is actively discipling and ordaining very young leaders and handing over responsibilities to them.

I don't see, here in Chattanooga, the loyality of the membership to COGOP like we did 20-30 years ago. You must see it where you are. I don't see our members leaving because of a merger. The doctrine is the same in most eyes.

Just for clarification, since you have chosen to post under a pseudonym that conceals your identity, are you a COGOP member active in a local COGOP congregation?

No, there's no huge congregational loyalty to COGOP in Hawaii... the average person in the pew chooses a local church because they feel at home there, or their perceived needs are met there, regardless of denominational label. That being said, what possible advantage would there be for a small pentecostal denomination to be absorbed by another fairly small pentecostal denomination? Maybe the COG label carries some impact in Chattanooga, but I can tell you it's meaningless here. Personally, if any merger was being considered — and I can promise you IT IS NOT — my choice would be FourSquare. They are a very contemporary, forward looking, well-led, missional church, and in my area they own the joint. There's a 4SQ church on every corner and meeting in every school.

Doctrinally the COG/COGOP are very close. Culturally? Not even close at all.

My concern is that there is a possibility that COGOP could bankrupt and lose everything. A merger would prevent that.

Would you please provide some facts for your concerns about "a possibility that COGOP could bankrupt and lose everything"? What is making you think so? Facts? Please provide them for us to review.

Could it be said that the leadership is only thinking of themselves? I believe that is called selfishness.

Short answer? No, and you have no basis for saying so.

[Rascal]

PG, I am a member of the church. Over 35 yrs

Most men when they get 55+ start thinking about retirement. I agree that they have wisdon that is very much needed in leadership. But in this changing world, that seems to not be valued much anymore.

All the pastors in this area are 55+

When committees are asked to explore the value of selling the general HQ building, that to me, is financial desperation. Am I wrong that money is not an issue at GH?

I can assure you that I am not the only member that questions these things. I am not trying to be a mean person, just expressing my thoughts. And, thanks for allowing this at J2.

It is my desire and prayer that the COGOP would be a thriving church again in the U.S. It saddens me to travel around the southeast and see our churches decline and close. I am not trying to brow beat, just trying to find possible ways we can inprove to pull out of this decline. If your church is thriving, God bless you and your work. I think we would all agree that we need help. How can we improve unless we know where the weakness is? Prayer is the answer of course.

[Shellie]

Rascal wrote:

It is my desire and prayer that the COGOP would be a thriving church again in the U.S. It saddens me to travel around the southeast and see our churches decline and close.

If our local churches are closing, it has nothing to do with HQ. It has everything to do with local mindset. God is not dead and He is not closing. If churches are closing, the check needs to be done within the people of the building and not the people of HQ.

[Pastor Gary]

PG, I am a member of the church. Over 35 yrs

Thanks for the clarification. It was not totally clear to me.

Most men when they get 55+ start thinking about retirement. I agree that they have wisdon that is very much needed in leadership. But in this changing world, that seems to not be valued much anymore.

Well, interesting. I became an Overser at 52, went back to Seminary at age 58 and got my Masters at age 62. I kind of "replanted" the church I lead 5 years ago, and the demographic in the congregation is heavily skewed young... average age is around 28-35.

All the pastors in this area are 55+

As hard as I am working to identify, disciple, empower and release young leaders, and expect to see them lead new kinds of churches, I am not really sure having senior pastors over 55 is a major issue. Over 75? Much more of a problem...

When committees are asked to explore the value of selling the general HQ building, that to me, is financial desperation. Am I wrong that money is not an issue at GH?

I'm sure the International Offices are not rolling in cash. I know that pretty much EVERY denominational office has tightened their belts, combined jurisdictions, trimmed staff and closed costly programs. We have done all that and more. Some decisions I agreed with, and others I questioned the wisdom of, but I (personally) never associated the word desperation with those decisions. Of course money is an issue... it's an issue everywhere.

I can assure you that I am not the only member that questions these things. I am not trying to be a mean person, just expressing my thoughts. And, thanks for allowing this at J2.

Completely understood. I know that some of the problems and failures of the past have left many people suspicious and maybe even a little bit jaded toward leadership and their handling of funds. I hope we can restore trust and a belief in the integrity of our leaders.

It is my desire and prayer that the COGOP would be a thriving church again in the U.S. It saddens me to travel around the southeast and see our churches decline and close. I am not trying to brow beat, just trying to find possible ways we can inprove to pull out of this decline. If your church is thriving, God bless you and your work. I think we would all agree that we need help. How can we improve unless we know where the weakness is? Prayer is the answer of course.

I agree with your desire. I am 5,000 miles west of the southeastern U.S. and can't speak to the conditions there with any clarity, but I, too, am saddened by some of the things I observe from a distance.