Jude 2

Let's get a consensus from the Jude2 family.

pastorables

How about one that says "God can and does heal, but is not obligated to do so."

or "God heals, but at His sovereign will sometimes may choose to NOT heal."

Your poll is so biased I won't answer it. It makes those who do not see God as obligated to heal because we pray as denying His power to heal.

I can't vote anything but 'other' because I believe both that Jesus bought for me every disposition of God's covenant mercy towards me--including any healing that I ever receive and every second of health that I experience--I owe it all to Jesus (all of it),

AND I believe that it is not God's will to heal everyone all the time.

Tracy

Or howzabout:

"God heals who he wants to, when he wants to, regardless of how much you command him, threaten him with your version of his word, or order him to do so."

I agree with all three of you but of course my vote don't count

Gerald Creasy wrote:Or howzabout:

"God heals who he wants to, when he wants to, regardless of how much you command him, threaten him with your version of his word, or order him to do so."

That's my baby! Ditto what he just said!

How about "God can asnd does use sickness, poverty, and adversity to mold the character of His saints if He sees fit."

Pastor Gary wrote:or "God heals, but at His sovereign will sometimes may choose to NOT heal."
Your poll is so biased I won't answer it. It makes those who do not see God as obligated to heal because we pray as denying His power to heal.

Pastor Gary:

If G does not work for you then I will. I do not see the poll as biased. I thought of every option I could and then added OTHER. A failure to add OTHER would have made for a biased poll.

pastorables

Pastor Gary wrote:It makes those who do not see God as obligated to heal because we pray as denying His power to heal.

God is not obligated to heal, neither is he obligated to cast out devils, but he practiced both with regularity when he walked upon earth and gives us the power to do the same.

pastorables

pastorables wrote:If G does not work for you then I will. I do not see the poll as biased. I thought of every option I could and then added OTHER. A failure to add OTHER would have made for a biased poll.

I don't attribute any evil motive -- just pointing out that "ALL the above." and "NONE of the above" and "OTHER" reponses are not very satisfying, when it is simple to frame choices that really fit. SOme good examples have been given that seem so obvious to me I wonder how you missed them, or something like them. Surely you accept that one can believe in God's healing power yet challenge the assumption that God MUST ALWAYS heal. That may not be your view, but I am sure you are not unfamiliar with the position.

Pastor Gary wrote:I don't attribute any evil motive -- Surely you accept that one can believe in God's healing power yet challenge the assumption that God MUST ALWAYS heal.

Pastor Gary:

I tried to frame the poll fairly and I still say that G suffices for your argument, nevertheless, I tried to amend the poll and couldn't. Can you add J as the selection you would like to see in the poll?

pastorables

How about "God can asnd does use sickness, poverty, and adversity to mold the character of His saints if He sees fit."

Mike,

I don't believe the Lord causes illness in His people unless He is really
disciplining that individual and trying to wake them up/keep them from falling away. I base this on Revelation which speaks of Jezebel, in which He says, "I will cast her on a bed of affliction until she repent."

We had a lady in our church who was opposing us (behind our backs)
in a bible study. She was older and considered by others to be very
mature/spiritual. But she had some funny ways, and she opposed the
spiritual authority God had put in her life.

We weren't sure about all that was going on, but she ended up in the
hospital and when my husband went to see her, he heard the Holy Spirit
speak that verse in his heart, "I will cast her on a bed of affliction..." She did repent and recover in time and we were praying for her.

In two other examples (at 2 other churches) folks who were in rebellion
had gotten shingles.

But, that said, rebellion is a very serious sin and I believe that the Lord
will let us know if He is disciplining us. (Not every sickness is discipline.)

I'm also thinking of the verse,
1 Corinthians 11:28-29 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.1Co 11:30
For this cause many are weak and sickly among
you, and many sleep. So yes, the Lord does allow sickness at times, and sometimes there might be a spirit of infirmity involved.

But whether it is discipline or a spirit or just plain sickness, if we call on God He will often show mercy on us and bring about a healing. At times even when He is angry with us, if we humble ourselves before Him, the Lord will relent. At times when I've been in a bad situation, I really cry out to the Lord and He always comforts me and gives me peace and often, He changes my situation, or at least helps me understand it better.

So that's just my perspective.

How about "God can asnd does use sickness, poverty, and adversity to mold the character of His saints if He sees fit."

Yes, Yes, Yes. Well put, Mike.

Tracy

Jennifer wrote:

I don't believe the Lord causes illness in His people unless He is really
disciplining that individual and trying to wake them up/keep them from falling away.

According to Hebrews 12, if one is not disciplined then one is simply not a child of God...


"My Son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by Him; for those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and He scourges every son whom He receives.

It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?

But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons..."

It is the illegitimate children that do not get discipline. If one isn't being disciplined then one isn't a Christian, according to Hebrews.

"...but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share in His holiness." (v.11)

I do not think I would ever point fingers at a suffering believer as if to say, "You are being disciplined" without pointing the finger right back at myself and understanding that I also am subject to and deserving of being disciplined. It is the illegitimate children that do not receive discipline.

Blessings,
Tracy

Yes, Tracy I do believe that also. In my post I did say that God disciplines us
and sometimes with sickness.

But also, if and when we do get sick, whether it is discipline or not, if we cry out to God He will heal us.