Top Ten

[Rob]

Okay folks here's my top 10 for this weekend.

1. Texas - They looked the most impressive this weekend.
2. Florida - Only because Bama should have gotten beat
3. Bama - During the course of a year you have a game like they had this weekend, and survive to win the NC. I still think this is the best team in the country and in the SEC.
4. Cincinnati - This team is better than a lot of folks think, including me, and won with a back up QB BIG!!
5. USC - They are waiting in the wings for a few of the teams a head of them to fail so they can get into the NC game.
6. TCU - They are the real BCS busters. This team really looked good against a good BYU team that beat OK.
7. Iowa - Another team that should have lost this weekend.
8. LSU - Can't wait for the Bama-LSU game to decided the SEC West.
9. Penn St. - Man did they look good in the Big House.
10. Oregon - Canpt wait for the USC - Oregon game.

Any thoughts?

[dolfan]

Good list.

[EagerBeaver]

Cincinnati is the TRUTH.

Iowa is the luckiest team in the nation.

USC is going to lose next weekend.

That's it!

[dolfan]

Cincinnati is the TRUTH.

Iowa is the luckiest team in the nation.

USC is going to lose next weekend.

That's it!

Cincinnati is good and that's all there is to it. I watched part of their game, but not all of it, on ESPN. Sound performance, some depth. I like them. Don't know what that means for Pitt. Circle 12/5 on your calendars, everyone. This could be the most underrated but most exciting regular season game to decide anything all year. Of course, the Backyard Brawl could change all that.

[Pastorbps]

I know I sound like a broken record BUT Boise still hasn't lost and beat Oregon. It doesn't matter at what point in the season or anything else. Boise deserves it above Oregon. You guys complain Boise doesn't play anybody and when they do and beat them, you say they played them at the wrong time of the year.

1. Cincinnati (Speaking of teams who look good week in and week out).
2. TCU (Let's do the old "Degrees of separation" argument - Texas beat Oklahoma by 3, BYU beat Oklahoma at Oklahoma, TCU blew out BYU at BYU, thus TCU is rated above Texas. We could try it another way - Clemson beat Miami at Miami, TCU beat Clemson at Clemson, Miami beat Oklahoma, Texas only beat Oklahoma by 3)
3. Texas (Since you have them rated above Alabama and Florida then I will too)
4. Alabama (If they ever fall behind by more than 10 they are done)
5. Florida (Can they outscore a good team?)
6. Boise (Only because they are undefeated)
7. Iowa (Only because they are undefeated)
8. LSU (Defense makes them really #5 or #6)
9. Oregon (Should beat USC and this makes Boise even look better)
10. Utah (Only loss is to Oregon at Oregon and Oregon is great!!!)

Now this is the way it is and I want no more arguing

[dolfan]

If Cincy was in any other BCS conference, I couldn't disagree. Hey, they're undefeated. Having said that, though, the BE is looking pretty good. IMO, better than the ACC this year. So, it's all very subjective. As it is, though, I still say that you could plug either Texas, Florida or Alabama in any of the top 3 spots and have a fair argument for either of them. Alabama isn't getting a lot of love this week because of a near disaster versus Tennessee, but memories are oh so short. Florida almost lost to an Arkansas offense that Alabama snuffed out totally and, but for a bad call or three, probably would've lost. Florida's win over Arkansas lacked the dramatic after-effects of the Bama win over UT, but it was even luckier when you factor in that the officials gift-wrapped that game for them and Alabama actually won it on the field ..... barely, barely, barely. After that UF win, though, they were #1 in the USA Today and BCS. Alabama's players actually make the razor-thin difference against a UT team that is comparable to Arkansas, and we drop a spot in the AP.
Who's to say who #1 really is? That's the problem with polling. Until it happens on the field, it isn't happening.

As I've said before, Alabama doesn't have to be #1 in the nation. They just have to be #1 in the present game. The rest of it will shake out on the field, too. It usually does one way or the other. THAT is the fun part to watch. (Although, I admit, I needed a nerve pill after that game ending FG block on Saturday. )

[Rob]

I know I sound like a broken record BUT Boise still hasn't lost and beat Oregon. It doesn't matter at what point in the season or anything else. Boise deserves it above Oregon. You guys complain Boise doesn't play anybody and when they do and beat them, you say they played them at the wrong time of the year.

1. Cincinnati (Speaking of teams who look good week in and week out).
2. TCU (Let's do the old "Degrees of separation" argument - Texas beat Oklahoma by 3, BYU beat Oklahoma at Oklahoma, TCU blew out BYU at BYU, thus TCU is rated above Texas. We could try it another way - Clemson beat Miami at Miami, TCU beat Clemson at Clemson, Miami beat Oklahoma, Texas only beat Oklahoma by 3)
3. Texas (Since you have them rated above Alabama and Florida then I will too)
4. Alabama (If they ever fall behind by more than 10 they are done)
5. Florida (Can they outscore a good team?)
6. Boise (Only because they are undefeated)
7. Iowa (Only because they are undefeated)
8. LSU (Defense makes them really #5 or #6)
9. Oregon (Should beat USC and this makes Boise even look better)
10. Utah (Only loss is to Oregon at Oregon and Oregon is great!!!)

Now this is the way it is and I want no more arguing

Sorry, I'm not going to argue, but I will debate. . First off with regards to Boise, yes they beat Oregon, but who have they played since and have you taken the time to review their remaining schedule? If not, I would advise you do to so, because it is pityful who they play the rest of the season. I know, I know, you play who you play, and I agree, but if Boise wants to be a serious contender for a BCS bowl, play someone. They play in a terrible conference, but they need to beef up their non-conference schdule.

As for your poll, Cincinnati is good, certainly a top 5 team, but not a #1. TCU #2 is a joke, and by the way BYU beat OK at Dallas at the new Cowboy stadium not in Norman. I do believe that if TCU can run the table they will be a BCS buster and not Boise. Your 3 through 5 is okay if you had them 1-3 and Cincy 4. Boise at 6 is more of joke then TCU at #2. If Boise was in any of the BCS conference's they would not be undefeated right now. Iowa is hanging by a thread especially since they have lost one of their starting guards on the OL. LSU will continue to be in the top 10 till they meet up with Bama. 9 Oregon I would give you that one if you had USC somewhere in your top 10. However, they have this week to prove if they deserve it or not. And #10 Utah, makes me wonder if you even watch college football on Saturdays. There are several teams more deserving of a top ten ranking than Utah.

The good thing about all of this is it gives a reason to debate each week only to watch the games on Saturday and see who does what on the field.

[EagerBeaver]

I know I sound like a broken record BUT Boise still hasn't lost and beat Oregon. It doesn't matter at what point in the season or anything else. Boise deserves it above Oregon. You guys complain Boise doesn't play anybody and when they do and beat them, you say they played them at the wrong time of the year.

1. Cincinnati (Speaking of teams who look good week in and week out).
2. TCU (Let's do the old "Degrees of separation" argument - Texas beat Oklahoma by 3, BYU beat Oklahoma at Oklahoma, TCU blew out BYU at BYU, thus TCU is rated above Texas. We could try it another way - Clemson beat Miami at Miami, TCU beat Clemson at Clemson, Miami beat Oklahoma, Texas only beat Oklahoma by 3)
3. Texas (Since you have them rated above Alabama and Florida then I will too)
4. Alabama (If they ever fall behind by more than 10 they are done)
5. Florida (Can they outscore a good team?)
6. Boise (Only because they are undefeated)
7. Iowa (Only because they are undefeated)
8. LSU (Defense makes them really #5 or #6)
9. Oregon (Should beat USC and this makes Boise even look better)
10. Utah (Only loss is to Oregon at Oregon and Oregon is great!!!)

Now this is the way it is and I want no more arguing

If you were a sportswriter I would demand you be fired because you obviously don't study the sport!!! I am shocked you don't have an Others Receiving Votes section comprised of Florida International, Buffalo, San Diego State and Army, among others.

Boise is above Oregon based on the win earlier this year. No bones about that...but however if they both win out their remaining games it would be very hard to justify keeping Boise ahead of Oregon in the ratings. I know I'm biased but running the table in the Pac-10 is much more of a feat than running it in the Whack.

[dolfan]

I agree with EB. If they beat USC this weekend, I think they should be top 5. Nothing against Boise, but if all other of the top 10 teams played Boise's schedule, those teams' margin of victory over those same opponents would be so much greater than Boise's that, if you ranked them by their MOV's, Boise wouldn't be in the top 10. (How's that for some contrived logic? But, I still believe it. ) I like Boise State. They're fun to watch on Wednesday or Thursday nights. I know they beat Oregon. They are good enough to do that, obviously. That one victory, though, can't be extrapolated over a season of really inferior opposition. To their credit, they will beef up their non-conf. schedule next year by playing WVU. I'd like to see a regular season matchup of Boise State vs. Alabama just because we don't play Mountain and Pacific time zone teams very often. I'd even like a home and home of that, but I don't know if we'll ever see it.

[Pastorbps]

EB
I told you I want no more arguing!!! If Oregon and Boise both run the table then Boise should be rated above Oregon. All that would prove is that Boise is better than everybody in the PAC 10. How could you rate a team with 1 loss above a team with no losses when the the one loss was to the team with no losses. That is nonsense. Now for a reality check. PAC 10 this year rates behind the SEC, BIG 12, and the BIG EAST. It is probably about the same as the BIG 10, ACC, and the MOUNTAIN WEST. Yes it is better than the WAC but it is not a great conference this year. Because it is not better than the Big East then Cincinnati should remain ahead of Oregon no matter what. IF TCU beats Utah convincingly then no doubt they should be above Oregon who only beat Utah by 7 at home.

PastorRob:
So BYU beat Oklahoma on a neutral field (Even though it is much closer to Oklahoma annd many Oklahoma players are from Texas). BYU was DOGGED not just beat but DOGGED by TCU at home. Let's do it this way PastorRob. If West Virginia went undefeated and had beaten Oregon convincingly early in the season, would you vote Oregon over West Virginia. The answer is NOPE. What if Boise were undefeated in their weak conference and played an undefeated Oregon in the Fiesta Bowl at the end of the year? Would Boise be rated above Oregon in the final poll? Their schedule wouldn't matter would it? Disputes are settled on the field and it was.

You know I should charge for this wisdom.

[EagerBeaver]

PastorBPS you are contradicting yourself here:

If Oregon and Boise both run the table then Boise should be rated above Oregon. All that would prove is that Boise is better than everybody in the PAC 10.

Then you go on to say about the Pac10:

Yes it is better than the WAC

So by your last statement Oregon has by far the greatest uphill climb from here on out. By your very own statement you negate your prior argument...like I said I do know the Ducks lost to Boise State, but if there was an optimal game to lose, that first game was it.

The whole "Team A beat Team B, who lost to team C so team C is equal to or greater than A" philosophy does not work. Oregon could go out there and hypothetically drub TCU and Cincinnati, thus throwing a wrench into your whole argument. The Pythagorean Theorem has nothing to do with college football, ya know.

If there is one thing the BCS gets right, it is that they try to take into account a strength-of-schedule ranking. Boise State is going to have to run up the score in a couple or three of their upcoming games to look good in the SOS department. Oregon simply needs to win out, IMHO.

As it stands the Ducks and Broncos are both going to a BCS bowl if the season ended today, and I'll take that.

[Pastorbps]

No Contradiction. I said the Pac 10 is better than the WAC but I didn't say every team in the Pac 10 is better than every team in the WAC. Obviously they are not. If Oregon wins out in the PAC 10 but lost to Boise then Boise is better than everyone in the PAC 10.

I made a valid point. 1st Game or Last Game makes no difference IF both teams hold their same record to the end. If your argument were true and what Oregon does against a tougher schedule means they should be rated above Boise then that should hold true if they played at the end of the season and Boise beat them then. It would make no difference if Boise beat them in the Fiesta Bowl because, after all, Oregon played a tougher schedule. Bottom line is, Boise beat Oregon. If Boise loses to someone between now and the end of the season and Oregon wins out then maybe Oregon could argue for a higher rating but even that would be tough if both had one loss because in a tie, head to head is always the firs tie breaker.

As far as the team A beat team B philosophy - I was using that regarding TCU not Boise. Boise's case is based on a head to head victory. If head to head doesn't exist then I think it is valid to assess common opponents which is not flawless but is as good as any other alternative. I was really using that for those who discount these other teams while lauding the teams from the "Big" conferences and with the "Big" names. If Texas is SO MUCH better than TCU then why did TCU drum a team that Oklahoma lost to while Texas squeaked by Oklahoma. It isn't flawless but it at least makes an argument not to dismiss TCU.

[Rob]

If you were a sportswriter I would demand you be fired because you obviously don't study the sport!!! I am shocked you don't have an Others Receiving Votes section comprised of Florida International, Buffalo, San Diego State and Army, among others.

Boise is above Oregon based on the win earlier this year. No bones about that...but however if they both win out their remaining games it would be very hard to justify keeping Boise ahead of Oregon in the ratings. I know I'm biased but running the table in the Pac-10 is much more of a feat than running it in the Whack.

If I didn't have an other's receiving votes, I would put Boise in that section. The only team they have played on that schedule that would qualify them for a top 20 vote would be Oregon. They struggled to beat a Division 2 team in Cal-Davis.

Your last paragraph is the only thing I can agree with. However, if USC beats Oregon this weekend, that will diminish Boise win even that much more in my opinion.

My dislike for Boise is simply this, PLAY SOMEBODY IN YOUR NON-CONFERENCE SCHEDULE because you play in a cupcake conference.

[Rob]

I agree with EB. If they beat USC this weekend, I think they should be top 5. Nothing against Boise, but if all other of the top 10 teams played Boise's schedule, those teams' margin of victory over those same opponents would be so much greater than Boise's that, if you ranked them by their MOV's, Boise wouldn't be in the top 10. (How's that for some contrived logic? But, I still believe it. ) I like Boise State. They're fun to watch on Wednesday or Thursday nights. I know they beat Oregon. They are good enough to do that, obviously. That one victory, though, can't be extrapolated over a season of really inferior opposition. To their credit, they will beef up their non-conf. schedule next year by playing WVU. I'd like to see a regular season matchup of Boise State vs. Alabama just because we don't play Mountain and Pacific time zone teams very often. I'd even like a home and home of that, but I don't know if we'll ever see it.

Sorry, Dolfan, Boise does not play WVU next year.

[Rob]

PastorRob:
So BYU beat Oklahoma on a neutral field (Even though it is much closer to Oklahoma annd many Oklahoma players are from Texas). BYU was DOGGED not just beat but DOGGED by TCU at home. Let's do it this way PastorRob. If West Virginia went undefeated and had beaten Oregon convincingly early in the season, would you vote Oregon over West Virginia. The answer is NOPE. What if Boise were undefeated in their weak conference and played an undefeated Oregon in the Fiesta Bowl at the end of the year? Would Boise be rated above Oregon in the final poll? Their schedule wouldn't matter would it? Disputes are settled on the field and it was.

You know I should charge for this wisdom.

What does playing in Dallas have to do with being closer and where players are from? A few years ago, WVU played Georgia in the Sugar Bowl that was played in Atlanta which is a few miles down the road from Athens it was still a neutral field.

I agree that Boise beat Oregon on the field, I watched the game. However since that time Boise has yet to play a quality team. In my opinion for Boise to be considered a top 10 team or a Top 15 team they have got to beef up their non-conference schedule, because the WAC is so terrible. At the end of the year, when all is said and done if Oregon wins out there is no way you can justify Boise being a head of them simply because they beat them the first game of the season. I would love to see them play in a bowl game again and watch what happens the second time.