How much better off since last GA?

[Pastor Bill]

I know there is great wisdom in those that have left, and I do like the outside opinions, but sometimes there is a hint of jade there too, it's understandable, and it's expected, but let's not pretend it's not there. Dr. Ron, you let most of it out jokingly and knowing you more, it's easier to take, Paul, I have great respect for what you are doing, but at the same time you have to realize that when you describe something inside the CoGoP that those currently active in the organization don't see, call it as normal for the CoGoP, and cite an instance from your days in BTI, it's just not an accurate observation of where we currently are.

I came in from the outside, I don't carry some of the baggage as many on here who have a history with the CoGoP, and what I am seeing IS what we are now, I do see hints of the past, and frankly I may have been quicker than you to hit the door had I been here then, but then isn't always the same as now. It's like someone looking at a newly refinished room, where work has been done to restore, repaint, repair, and all they see is "nothing has changed". It makes you feel the work has been in vane, or unappriciated.

Dr. Ron stated that at times he feels "Hey they finally got that" boy that would be good to hear rather than "well we tried to do that years ago, but the CoGoP won't allow it, good luck."

That very well may not be what is meant , but at times things do come across that way.

[paul]

Paul, I understand that, but at the same time, the parent company that first brought you in would be more akin to the IO, with you and the other leaders you mentioned more in pastoral leadership roles.

Having the independence to move ahead you became more than a tax write-off for the company, but that wasn't the company setting that pace, it was you.

I think the view that all direction must come from the IO really cuts down on what the local ministry can do. As you pointed out, you have to have strong leaders down in the departments, down doing the work, and that requires adjusting to local customs, personalities, needs, that the IO are not even aware of.

Treading softfully here, lest some misunderstand. What I shared here is simply a mirco-cosom. I believe the principle works whether applied to a International, National or local level. It is a principle. I still believe that if an organization is to survive ( any type ) it must have strong leadership and it sets the pace and then faciliates those under it by providing outlets, resources, training, and other means. I believe strongly that the more power and control you give away the more you actually have.

But as many have already stated it comes down to trust, and relationship on all levels

[Pastor Bill]

Paul, I understand that, but at the same time, the parent company that first brought you in would be more akin to the IO, with you and the other leaders you mentioned more in pastoral leadership roles.

Having the independence to move ahead you became more than a tax write-off for the company, but that wasn't the company setting that pace, it was you.

I think the view that all direction must come from the IO really cuts down on what the local ministry can do. As you pointed out, you have to have strong leaders down in the departments, down doing the work, and that requires adjusting to local customs, personalities, needs, that the IO are not even aware of.

Treading softfully here, lest some misunderstand. What I shared here is simply a mirco-cosom. I believe the principle works whether applied to a International, National or local level. It is a principle. I still believe that if an organization is to survive ( any type ) it must have strong leadership and it sets the pace and then faciliates those under it by providing outlets, resources, training, and other means.

I agree on that Paul, but I also have worked at the bottom end (both secularly and in the church) and seen how often great strides are held up due to restrictions of top-down pacesetting. Good leaders will recognize strengths and give freedom to those to follow even if it is at times "running ahead".

[paul]

Paul, I understand that, but at the same time, the parent company that first brought you in would be more akin to the IO, with you and the other leaders you mentioned more in pastoral leadership roles.

Having the independence to move ahead you became more than a tax write-off for the company, but that wasn't the company setting that pace, it was you.

I think the view that all direction must come from the IO really cuts down on what the local ministry can do. As you pointed out, you have to have strong leaders down in the departments, down doing the work, and that requires adjusting to local customs, personalities, needs, that the IO are not even aware of.

Treading softfully here, lest some misunderstand. What I shared here is simply a mirco-cosom. I believe the principle works whether applied to a International, National or local level. It is a principle. I still believe that if an organization is to survive ( any type ) it must have strong leadership and it sets the pace and then faciliates those under it by providing outlets, resources, training, and other means.

I agree on that Paul, but I also have worked at the bottom end (both secularly and in the church) and seen how often great strides are held up due to restrictions of top-down pacesetting. Good leaders will recognize strengths and give freedom to those to follow even if it is at times "running ahead".

I believe strongly that the more power and control you give away the more you actually have.

But as many have already stated it comes down to trust, and relationship on all levels

[MrDanger]

And Pastor Gary....you have to get in line for that "chief sinner" thing. I passed you long ago.......

That wouldn't have to do with the number of birthdays or anything would it. It seems to me I overheard a conversation about your age this weekend between Keith and mom.

I, personally, wouldn't say you are getting old (a word I overheard in said conversation), I think of you as aged like a fine wine, um, I mean Welches grape juice.

[Dr. Ron]

Thank you Jeff. And your mom is much older than me.......and then there is the really old Keith.....is he still in the nursing home????

Last Sunday I preached the vison 2020 sermon. I have cast the vision for this church for the next 12 years!

I told them that my biological clock was ticking......but my spiritual clock was hitting right on time!!!!!

And yes, I am aging quite well TY!!!!!!