Postmodern Christianity question

[EagerBeaver]

I was visiting a local church once that embraces a completely postmodern view on Christianity. Having grown up COGOP, I'm not used to people openly questioning conventional Christianity, the Bible or the basis of truth itself, but I got a distinct feeling that while what this church was doing was good in its intent, it could actually cause some harm by what seemed to me to be wavering on important topics such as truth, sin, etc.

I went home after my visit to the church and I researched a bit more on postmodern Christianity, and I concluded that this church had fully embraced a postmodern concept to its service, and that scared me. Yes, I have been in churches in which the feeling was too rigid, sort of like a Borg collective where everyone is force fed the same thing and acts a certain way -- and I have also been to churches and prayer groups where it is a bit too freewheeling and everyone carries their own belief of what God is and who he does (oh, but we're all still worshipping the same God, right?).

I guess I have a really big question about postmodern Christianity. Why can't the people who have embraced postmodernism simply crack open their Bible, pray to God for understanding, ask their fellow Christian believers and leadership for help in understanding instead of debating it, and grow some faith?

Honestly I think the postmodern view could serve to be a stumbling block to Christians who embrace it. By not fully embracing certain tenets such as truth, morality, etc. they are in effect not embracing the Bible that serves as a guide and an answer to their questions.

What say ye?

[dolfan]

First, I'd say that a lot of meetings and approaches are more in favor of asking questions than answering them. But, to say that is a thoroughly modern response to the very existence of postmodern thought. In other words, we're fogies even if not old ones.

Postmodernism emphasizes experience and relationships; it really doesn't so much concern itself with truth. Truth is relational and experiential in the postmodern mind, and not so much propositional, especially when it comes to intangible ideas such as morality and faith. It is a completely and altogether different universe of ideas than the one you're viewing it from. Now, that's not to disagree with you, but it is an admission that when it comes to postmodern thought, that kind of questioning about "why-don't-they-just-get-it?" is, for the postmodern mind, ridiculous and itself beside the point.

When weighing values, postmodernism attaches far more to enrichment and affirmation than it does to the existence of truth or the application of morality. Now, that gets wishy-washy because when faced with some matters that strike that ever-present emotional chord, they can be just as downright propositional as the most ardent modernist. For example, take global warming. Postmoderns have no problem embracing the notion that "global warming is a world danger that must be addressed now" as true, and advocating action based on it. But, they would argue that the evidence is empirical, scientific even, and therefore settles the question to such an undeniable degree that it is ultimately a moral issue. So, they move from propositional truth in the empirical realm (albeit poorly conceived in the example above), to moral truth quite easily because it matters to THEM. And, it matters to THEM, in their view, because it is crucial to everyone's well being, and that's a relational value that they thoroughly embrace.

Okay, so that last part about the welfare of everyone being better ... that's a good thing. How they get there is the part that troubles you and me as modernist thinkers. I don't know that there can ever be a real, lasting and comfortable rubbing of shoulders between the modern and postmodern mind. Eventually, you and I will die and people who think like the people you were in church with on that occasion will be the one's running the show. That worries me for my daughter, who will grow up in quite the throwback of homes compared to her peers, which will cause her to have relational difficulties with either her parents or her peers, and the ways that gets treated by all of us will SIGNIFICANTLY impact her life. I don't know what to do about it except be aware, and point out errors and lead the way by love and example and discipline.

The world's a mess, I can tell you that.

[EagerBeaver]

When weighing values, postmodernism attaches far more to enrichment and affirmation than it does to the existence of truth or the application of morality. Now, that gets wishy-washy because when faced with some matters that strike that ever-present emotional chord, they can be just as downright propositional as the most ardent modernist. For example, take global warming. Postmoderns have no problem embracing the notion that "global warming is a world danger that must be addressed now" as true, and advocating action based on it. But, they would argue that the evidence is empirical, scientific even, and therefore settles the question to such an undeniable degree that it is ultimately a moral issue. So, they move from propositional truth in the empirical realm (albeit poorly conceived in the example above), to moral truth quite easily because it matters to THEM. And, it matters to THEM, in their view, because it is crucial to everyone's well being, and that's a relational value that they thoroughly embrace.

Very well spoken, and very true from my observations as well. That's where you get into the whole issue of relativism -- i.e. what applies to me might not apply to you but it might to someone else, and so forth -- and that really gets my goat, so to speak. I think relativism and postmodernism are both intertwined and that's not necessarily a good thing.

Postmodern Christians from what I've seen seem to value emotions, aesthetics, community, relationship over substance. I don't know whether that's necessarily a bad thing in and of itself but it certainly isn't all good either.

I don't know that there can ever be a real, lasting and comfortable rubbing of shoulders between the modern and postmodern mind. Eventually, you and I will die and people who think like the people you were in church with on that occasion will be the one's running the show.

I agree with you on this big time, dolfan. They are two extremes and no one seems to really be willing to find a common middle ground that lays it all down and acts purely based on faith. The modenists tend to go with tradition whereas the postmodernists seem to adopt a very freewheeling system, but there has to be a strictly faith-based middle ground.

That worries me for my daughter, who will grow up in quite the throwback of homes compared to her peers, which will cause her to have relational difficulties with either her parents or her peers, and the ways that gets treated by all of us will SIGNIFICANTLY impact her life. I don't know what to do about it except be aware, and point out errors and lead the way by love and example and discipline.

Scares me to even think about raising a kid myself.

Thanks for the response Dolfan!

[Pastor Bill]

I will say there may be some things we can learn from this though, the areas that they are focusing on are areas where they feel traditional churches have failed. Should we be paying more attention to relationships and these other things while still upholding the standards of truth in order to make problematic movements like this less appealing?

They may be seeking a dangerous direction, but the reasons they are seeking elsewhere are real, and could be good things for us to look at in our churches today.

[forestwalker]

I'm not sure of your categories here Chris. How would you define Modernism/Modern Christianity and Postmodernism/Postmodern Christianity?

[Gerald Creasy]

Postmodern Christians from what I've seen seem to value emotions, aesthetics, community, relationship over substance. I don't know whether that's necessarily a bad thing in and of itself but it certainly isn't all good either.

Isn't Pentecostalism tailor made for this?

In the sense that it is driven by the subjective experience of an individual?

Look at the guff I take even for insisting that a man not preach "Jesus was not God" or that Christianity and a witchcraft blend is unacceptable.
Why, someones faith might be deflated!!!!!

[Pastor Bill]

Postmodern Christians from what I've seen seem to value emotions, aesthetics, community, relationship over substance. I don't know whether that's necessarily a bad thing in and of itself but it certainly isn't all good either.

Isn't Pentecostalism tailor made for this?

In the sense that it is driven by the subjective experience of an individual?

Look at the guff I take even for insisting that a man not preach "Jesus was not God" or that Christianity and a witchcraft blend is unacceptable.
Why, someones faith might be deflated!!!!!

Not all of it, but many have taken this route. (painting with a broad brush like that covers you and I as well brother, and I don't think we fall into all that!