Have you ever been Prophesied over Falsely??

[DaJudge]

I think most of this "word of knowledge" and "speaking prophecy" over people is baloney. It's just flesh, mostly. Guess that's why no one has ever tried prophesying over me.

[Dr. Ron]

dajudge, that is funny given the fact that you are a member of

Church of God of Prophecy!!!!!!

A little jockularity there.....

[DaJudge]

dajudge, that is funny given the fact that you are a member of

Church of God of Prophecy!!!!!!

A little jockularity there.....

Well, as I've said before the "of Prophecy" bit of the name is baloney, too. So at least I'm being consistent.

[Gerald Creasy]

I think most of this "word of knowledge" and "speaking prophecy" over people is baloney. It's just flesh, mostly. Guess that's why no one has ever tried prophesying over me.

In every instance it has happened to me -as I have said- it has been false.

I once knew a man who went to one of those nutty everything goes Pentecostal churches.

People prophesied over him so much and so frequently they talked him out of his natural God given artistic talent (he had worked for Ford and the Federal Government with his art), told him he snorted the shekinah glory of God in and out of his nostrils and made him unable to deal with life too very well (Okay. Frankly, I BELIEVE it made him crazy)


The one who WANTS to believe in the supernatural things of God is sucked in and damaged by this falseness.

He was.

I have been.

It really must stop.

[rough_rider]

I can not remember one prophecy not coming to pass. There may have been some but at the moment I don't recall any that has not. There was one special one I will never forget. Before I was saved a pastor gave my wife a word of knowledge that I would be saved within a year. When she came home and was telling me about it, I flew off the handle about it. I told her I should go to church just to knock his teeth down his throat. I said I would NEVER get saved and if I did it would not be there. About a year later I went to church with my wife, that prophecy was totally forgotten about. I went on a Sunday morning, nothing happened, I for some odd reason went back to the evening service. That night I got saved, God delivered me right then, of drugs, alcohol, tobacco, and set me free from the bondage of witchcraft.
The next day my wife and I were talking and she reminded me of the prophecy that was given about me. It had been almost a year, that is one prophecy I'll never forget.

[paul]

My first introduction to the Prophetic was very dramatic. Without being to lengthy.

I was pastoring cogop in Dallas. I had been released from the ICU at methodist hospital for what they thought was a heart attack. Catherization showed no damage of any kind. A few weeks later I went to the emergency room again with pains, sweating etc.... they released me and I went home.

On television I saw a program not tbn. but local religious channel. They were announcing a prophetic ministers ministering at a church I had not heard of. I felt compelled to attend. When my wife got home we went to north Dallas to attend the meeting.

when we entered the church the picture of the pastor and his wife hang in the foyer. Name was Paul & Nancy Mills. Inside I saw the same hymnal we used the brown one. One the overhead was the course " Like a mighty army moves the Church of God. I relaized later God was setting me up, tearing down my defenses in order to receive.

I was about the second or third one he called out. Remember I knew no one in the church, did not accept personal prophecy as being from God. No one there knew me.

"Sir, he said, their is nothing wrong with your heart. Got my attention fast. The devil wants you to think that your ability and health is so bad that you would give uo the ministry and quit. Your heart condition in fine.

Nest, your ministry is about to change drastically. The meeting will not be fruitful. At that moment in my suit pocket was a ticket to houston to meet with the state overseer. ( the meeting was not fruitful it was a disaster) I would soon be leving the cogop on my own accord.

He then spoke to my wife, nancy and said that the autombile accident a year ago had messed up her internal cycles. That God was healing her at the very moment.

We had been in a serious accident one year almost to the week, nact was injured badly and had been out of cycle and in great pain in her neck and back.

There was more, but enough said.

So my first exposure was really genuine. So I became very open to the prophetic.

[THE RAzEr]

Every time I have had a "private Prophetic" moment, it has been generally true.

Every time it has happened "in service" it has been as false as my mother's teeth.

There is a real and a false to everything. I do not allow "parking lot" prophecies here at this church....nor do I allow "in service" prophecies on a personal basis.

Shane Queener is one of my elders here. He has given "words" to the congregation about 3 times over the 10 years of our existance. He has always been right on the money. Anyone who knows Shane, can attest that for him to do that requires a move of God in his life that is undeniable.

Mostly if someone has a prophetic word here, I require them to give it to me first and the ministry team will judge it by the word to determine it's validity.

I would not allow the other kind. On one rare ocassion it did happen that a "prophetiss" told a member of the praise team that her voice would become greater than Sandy Patti and that she would have her own Lear Jet and perform for Kings and Queens.

I told her that she was responsible for that outburst and now she must become the manager of this great talent. She left the church. Good ridance.

False prophecy is not too hard to discern.......it's kinda based on the idea that "the spirit and the word agree"....amazingly simple.

Ron you give 3 instances with shane when it has been right on the money. Evidently these were public instnaces. Evidently these were not false.

My point being this. Unless Shane is the only person whom god can use in this manner at your church, there may have been others a some time. Is it possible the judgement the church holds over the ministry of the Prophet has stopped at least some true manifestation of the Spirit.

i look for Scripture to see the Control Pastors have been given (or in some cases taken) concerning this matter of the Manifestations in coperate worship, and II find there is not much said about it.

One place however, does mention what to do when a person not scheduled to Prophesy does so. The instructions are for the first person speaking to sit down, and let the other speak his revelation, Then, the Prophets prsent are to judge what is said.

The act of judging it prior to it being given may seem prudent, but I see no Scriptural precedent, and i do see Scriptural precedent for the actual during the fact, and after the fact judgement. most Pastors i know would not want each of their sermons scrutinized before they preached them.

I do not know the answer to this question of how to discern the true from the false. I do not think the true words of Prophets is going to occur much in churches that do not want it to happen. I think if the false occurs sometime, it could be handled. I am afraid if we miss the true, because of the fear the false may occur, we will have a harder time handleling that one.

I do respect greatly your ministry and your words.

Ray

[Karen]

There have always been true and false prophets of God as evidenced throughout the scriptures. But the giftings of God are real and it is importent that we always pray for God's guidence and for spiritual discernment.

The gift of knowledge is real and I have seen it in operation. The gift of prophecy is real and I have also seen it in operation. Don't disbelieve in the giftings that God said that he would give to his children just because you have only seen or experienced the false.

[Dr. Ron]

razer.......

Thanks for your post. As always, it is difficult to respond to questions and issues here for the sake of brevity.

However, in the case of the word being brought to the pastor, scripturally, I see it as "watching over my flock". It is infinitely easier to pre-empt a problem than it is to allow false prophecy to get a foot hold and then try to deal with it after the fact.

If it is truely from God, then the words do not lose significance just because they were with held from the congregation for a time. It is my responsibility to make sure that whatever comes across my pulpit lines up with the word.
I have seen too many "train wrecks".

I did not mean to imply that Shane Queener was the only person who has ever given a word to this church, but rather that his has always been on the mark and lines up with the word.

We have had many wonderful "words" given to us and they have blessed the church. Not once has anyone not been willing to submit what God was speaking to them to the ministry team. In fact they find great comfort in knowing that they are being protected from moving in the flesh. They actually appreciate the boundaries......as do all who are not after "self promotion".

I caution all to walk very softly in this area. I have seen far too many lives ruined by the "prophetic" being out of control.

[paul]

We have had many wonderful "words" given to us and they have blessed the church. Not once has anyone not been willing to submit what God was speaking to them to the ministry team. In fact they find great comfort in knowing that they are being protected from moving in the flesh. They actually appreciate the boundaries......as do all who are not after "self promotion".

This has been my experience also.

[Karen]

However, in the case of the word being brought to the pastor, scripturally, I see it as "watching over my flock". It is infinitely easier to pre-empt a problem than it is to allow false prophecy to get a foot hold and then try to deal with it after the fact.

I believe that your intentions are well meant but I am not sure that I agree with you. Perhaps this would be a good study at some point in the future. It is a fine line between "protecting" the flock, and possibly not allowing God to work and have his way in ministering to his sheep.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, Christ.

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

[paul]

However, in the case of the word being brought to the pastor, scripturally, I see it as "watching over my flock". It is infinitely easier to pre-empt a problem than it is to allow false prophecy to get a foot hold and then try to deal with it after the fact.

I believe that your intentions are well meant but I am not sure that I agree with you. Perhaps this would be a good study at some point in the future. It is a fine line between "protecting" the flock, and possibly not allowing God to work and have his way in ministering to his sheep.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, Christ.

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

karen, I will defer to having been a pastor once more. I fully agree with Dr. Rons approach and feel it very biblical.

We are told to allow the the prophecy to be judged. I promise you if it is God it will be shared, God will indeed get His word to the church.

Paul states that some things are lawful but not expedient. The shepherd knows the sheep, know the lay of the land and is the highest authority in that local setting. Who better to be the one to allow or not allow a word. After all it is he/she that must give an account for the flock.

In my last pastorate we had an inhouse prophet. Proven, When someone felt the need to share thy simply went to him, he evaluated it. If he felt it time for the word he would get my attention. The word was written down and passed to me. If I deemed it a true word and in season. I would make room for it in the service. This is biblical..after all we all are encouraged to prophecie, but only some will walk in the function of the office.

There is safety, and wisdom in counsel.

[RamboPreacher]

...after all we all are encouraged to prophecie, but only some will walk in the function of the office.

There is safety, and wisdom in counsel.

what about the gift? or are you equating the gift from the Holy Spirit of Prophecy to the "office"?

(BTW - I otherwise agree with you and Dr. Ron, the challenge is that It has been my experience that there are too many pastors that if they don't have control, or some other personal circumstance, their will, trumps God's - and the congregation doesn't ever find out.)

[dolfan]

I think that the decision to pre-empt has a built in assessment in the moment that things are probably not right. That kind of ability to assess may be part gifting, part experience, but it is probably trustworthy. Also, if there was a problem of ignoring or "shushing" (to use a good southern word) God's voice, I think God knows us well enough that He'll get His point across in ways that we're open to hearing. Maybe that involves simply repeating the message in different ways; for example, a trusted person approaches in private to share what God is saying, and that gets confirmed through other prayerful people who say, "You know, I think that this is a right thing/bad idea/new strategy to try/direction to avoid, etc." If, however, in the course of a prayerful meeting and in non-presumptuous modes, a person meekly stands and says, "If you'd hear this, I believe God is laying this on my heart to say.....", and there is sufficient leadership to determine this is probably worth stopping and listening to, then God has already anticipated and knows that this is the situation, and is most likely (I think) to select that avenue of communication. We're without the benefit of the details of how things happened in the biblical record, and so we have to assume that God knows us, knows our personalities and views of Him and one another, and that He works His will consistently with ways He knows it will be accomplished. I can't imagine that God would send a message to a people who are unwilling to accept the messenger UNLESS (as the record bears out) He knows that the rejection is going to happen and will use that rejection to later demonstrate 1 or 100 other flaws in the hearts and minds of the people He's talking to in the first place. But, as I see the Bible pattern, God works patiently and in ways that are known and knowable to the people He is leading and directing. He's pretty good at it, and we (I) are pretty crummy at listening often times.

[Karen]

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, Christ.

But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

karen, I will defer to having been a pastor once more.

But, that does not make you the "scriptural" or "spiritual" head. You are a servant, you are not over or above but a part of the flock.

We are told to allow the the prophecy to be judged.

It is supposed to be judged by "the body", not a self appointed group.

The shepherd knows the sheep, know the lay of the land and is the highest authority in that local setting.

Nope, I don't think so. Christ is the head and then the husband and the wife under him. That is what is meant by ....it is a shame for a man to cover his head....... The man, husband, is not to have anyone "over/between" him and God. That is the line of scriptural, spiritual authority. You are a servant of the flock, the body. You share and work in what God has called you.

The scriptures speak of prophecy being given in open meetings/gatherings, not written down and given to a self appointed person to judge whether they will or will not share it.