Discussing A Countermovement to WOF

[PastorDaniel]

I like the idea of a reformational movement within the existing pentecostal bodies such as the COG and COGOP...

I would stand with this movement...

I would guess that there are as many or more that hold to the non-WOF view as there is that has given over to it...However, the voice of the vocal minority always seems to trump out the folks who just want a move of God...and I would say that it is because our movement is not in control of the airwaves...the WOF rules the religious programing stations...

We would almost have to have someone on TV that is non-WOF telling you to get up, go to church, and pay your tithes there!!

[MacUser]

Ditto,
When done in the right spirit of correction and not destruction.

Sort of like an online source or SEAL. The BBB of Gospel. Approved by the "Gospel Group" etc.

Backed by a transparent accountable board that you willingly submit your group to be reviewed and "gently" instructed on where corrections need to be made.

You could give a Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum Gospel compliance Awards on a yearly basis etc.

But I'm just talking outloud.

[dolfan]

Sort of likethis one?

[MacUser]

Correct me if I'm wrong.. but this deals more with money and financial transparency etc.

This would be sort of Gospel Transparency.

Like this green bogus link..
http://www.usgbc.org/


http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=1832



Insert the True Gospel outline, logo, approval seals etc.

[Dr. Ron]

Gerald,

I applaud your idea.

Now, let's see what it takes to start a movement.

1. A person/persons who are disgusted with status quo in churches.
2. People who are willing to pay a price for reformation....tears soaking a pillow at 3 am. Knees that are worn from prayer, bibles falling apart from use, (computers burning up from overheating) waistlines decreasing from fasting, cob-webs on the tv from lack of interest.
3. Stalwart men who stand in the face of adversity and draw a line in the sand.
4. Men/women who don't look for an open pulpit....but rather go into the highways and hedges and compell.
5. People whose integrity is beyond reproach.
6. People who are no longer interested in having "armour bearers" carrying their brief cases filled with trite overused verbage , no longer interested in the trappings of the successful image, no longer worried about their ratings in the "gospel tv" arena, no longer worried about having their own private "kingdoms on earth", no longer concerned that their staff is chosen from the "top of the crop".
7. People whose sole purpose is to find a purpose
8. People who will walk into the gates of hell armed with a sling and some stones.

You want a movement? It won't come clothed in a blog or a group of people emailing each other.

A movement comes when we STAND together as one and say, " we have seen the Lord's glory and we are dedicated to declare it to this generation".

God give us sleepless nights of weeping, weeks of being filled not by food but by Holy Spirit inspiration, lives of purpose to your word , your commmandments, your commission.

My sermon Sunday.

[PastorDaniel]

Awesome Post Dr. Ron...

my one disagreement is that this could start on a forum like this or by people of like mind emailing one another...

It's realizing that there are people all over the country and world of a "like mind" that could give us the courage to step out on faith and do the other things that you speak of...

We need help and we need each other...sometimes my only encouragement to keep going has come from this very forum...

[MacUser]

You want a movement? It won't come clothed in a blog or a group of people emailing each other.

Tell this to Barrack Obama the incoming president of the United States of America. His greatest strength was his ability to network millions+ online.

A favorite Pastor of mine once said.. let's DECIDE what we want to do and do it. We can be a great Night Club (insert anything here) if we all get on the same page. So let's decide to use everything for Christ and be effective.

I understand what you said and ultimately mean.. but don't knock methods. USE THEM.

[Pastor Gary]

Tell this to Barrack Obama the incoming president of the United States of America. His greatest strength was his ability to network millions+ online. ...but don't knock methods. USE THEM.

Preachin' to the choir here. The internet is the new brush arbor.

My thought is this: it can't be an "ANTI-________" movement. Those are hard to sell. I think, for example, Cindy Sheehan's anti-war rants would be better received as "Pro-Peace" or "Pro-Victory." (Declare victory and come home.)

The movement sort of already exists... it is called Christianity.

[Mike Vande]

I applaud the notion that a movement that exchews the entire WOF philosophy is needed. My only problem would be if it were a negative, reactionary movement, reacting to the problem by starting a new movement against a previous one. Movements that start out as anti-whatever end up publicizing the very whatever they oppose. That is defeating the ostensible purpose and goal that started the reactionary movement in the first place.

I would say that a movement that stresses the positive aspects of the pentecostal/charismatic factions of the church would be the way to go, rather than one that stresses the negative aspects of the WOF movement. People are a lot more receptive to teaching for something than against something. And, if the Gospel and the doctrines of the church are taught correctly, errors like the prosperity message can be seen for what they are by the people themselves. Make identifying and holding fast to what's good the goal of the movement itself, rather than getting rid of what's bad. If erroneous teachings come up, teach why they are erroneous. But don't make teaching against error the goal.

Something that has taken me a long time to learn is that confrontational approaches, while sometimes necessary, shouldn't be the substance of a first attempt to reach most people on most topics. Creating or identifying a villain and persecuting him is a bad thing, primarily because it gets to be a habit. When you've seen your "opponents" as villains long enough, you start seeing yourself as a hero. Oh, a reluctant hero maybe, but definitely someone who is fighting for Truth, Justice, and the American Way against rightfully resented and despicable enemies, all of whom deserve the contempt of every right minded individual. I think it's pretty obvious that kind of attitude is problematic.

The honest truth as I see it is that there is really only one villain, and he isn't flesh and blood. This is good, because our weapons against him aren't carnal, not intended for use against flesh and blood.

IN any event, as I said above, the best popular movements are for something rather than against. That's what I would look for a way to do.

[Gerald Creasy]

My thought is this: it can't be an "ANTI-________" movement. Those are hard to sell. I think, for example, Cindy Sheehan's anti-war rants would be better received as "Pro-Peace" or "Pro-Victory." (Declare victory and come home.)

I applaud the notion that a movement that exchews the entire WOF philosophy is needed. My only problem would be if it were a negative, reactionary movement, reacting to the problem by starting a new movement against a previous one. Movements that start out as anti-whatever end up publicizing the very whatever they oppose. That is defeating the ostensible purpose and goal that started the reactionary movement in the first place.

I agree with both of these statements.

However several things must be considered:

Any idea/movement DIFFERENT than the prevailing mindset will be automatically considered "Anti".

Pentecostalism has long ago been stolen by these wolves and decievers.

It sounds terrible to say but it is truthful: If Ministers had been doing their job this would have never happened,
Instead the "best" of the Pentecostals are those "carried away with dissimulation" the most: [Osteen, Jakes, Hinn]
They have become the benchmark.

[RaceRunner]

The WOF people take bits of Biblical truth (like satan in the garden of Eden and with Jesus after His 40 days fast) and then twist it to suit their own purposes for financial gain. (The Balaam Network)

Jam 1:26-27 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Just LIVE it! The world is just looking for someone, a person, a church... to actually LIVE a Christian life in front of them.

You may not reach thousands this way, but the ones you do reach will be convinced.

The Psalmist Advice Ps 37:1-11

Fret not thyself because of evildoers,
neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity. For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.

Trust in the LORD, and do good;
so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.

Delight thyself also in the LORD;
and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him;
and he shall bring it to pass. And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.

Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him:
fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.

Cease from anger, and forsake wrath:
fret not thyself in any wise to do evil. For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that

Wait upon the LORD,
they shall inherit the earth.

For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be:
yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.

But the meek shall inherit the earth;
and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

[Gerald Creasy]

So that's it?

No more thoughts?


How would a Pastor go about addressing this issue in his congregation?

I believe that if polled MOST in COGOPS would line up with WOF tendencies.

Do you agree? Disagree?

[Pastor Gary]

So that's it?

No more thoughts?


How would a Pastor go about addressing this issue in his congregation?

I believe that if polled MOST in COGOPS would line up with WOF tendencies.

Do you agree? Disagree?

I doubt that seriously. I know way too many COGOP people keep their TVs locked onto TBN thinking that makes them more spiritual than me for watching HOUSE, LAW & ORDER and LOST, but I doubt if half of them have a clue that there is even false doctrine being taught there... they are just comfortable with the culture and music there.

[Gerald Creasy]

So that's it?

No more thoughts?


How would a Pastor go about addressing this issue in his congregation?

I believe that if polled MOST in COGOPS would line up with WOF tendencies.

Do you agree? Disagree?

I doubt that seriously. I know way too many COGOP people keep their TVs locked onto TBN thinking that makes them more spiritual than me for watching HOUSE, LAW & ORDER and LOST, but I doubt if half of them have a clue that there is even false doctrine being taught there... they are just comfortable with the culture and music there.

You doubt seriously that most COGOPS lean WOF?

I have only my experience to go by. I was taught WOF principles as early as 1970 by a COGOP ministers wife/teacher and my teens were spent in a COGOP where WOF was rampant and rife.

If it was that way in the COGOPS of my day , has it decreased since the 70s and 80s?

When Jakes is touted as the next Bill Grahm and Osteen is a symbol of success, is my concern unwarranted?

[Russell Roberts]

So that's it?

No more thoughts?


How would a Pastor go about addressing this issue in his congregation?

I believe that if polled MOST in COGOPS would line up with WOF tendencies.

Do you agree? Disagree?

I doubt that seriously. I know way too many COGOP people keep their TVs locked onto TBN thinking that makes them more spiritual than me for watching HOUSE, LAW & ORDER and LOST, but I doubt if half of them have a clue that there is even false doctrine being taught there... they are just comfortable with the culture and music there.

There's false doctrine being taught on TBN? Huh? Are you CRAZY?