question for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RaceRunner]

Church Discipline

Mat 18:12-14
(12) How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
(13) And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
(14) Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

(And according to John 3:16 KJV.....they "SHOULD NOT perish, but have everlasting life. (God has provided all that we need to be saved...and we SHOULD NOT perish...but the Bible says in other places that they do.)


Also: Gal 6:1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

which leads to Mat 18:115-20
(15) Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
(16) But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

(17) And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

(18) Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


1Co 5:1-13
(1) It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
(2) And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
(3) For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
(4) In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
(5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
(6) Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
(7) Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:.......

(11) But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
(12) For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
(13) But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.


1Pe 4:15-19 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
(16) Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

(17) For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
(18) And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

(19) Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.


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[RaceRunner]

Co 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
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2Pe 2:1-4 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that BOUGHT them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

(2) And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
(3) And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.

(4) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;.......continue reading the rest of the chapter.



Rom 11:19-23 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
(20) Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
(21) For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

(22) Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

(23) And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.


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[RaceRunner]

(2Ti 4:2-10) Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
(3) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

(4) And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
(5) But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
(6) For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
(7) I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:
(8) Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.



2Pe 1:4-12
(4) Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
(5) And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
(6) And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
(7) And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
(8) For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(9) But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
(10) Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:(11) For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
(12) Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

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[RaceRunner]

Want more?

I've got at least 20 more scriptures that I know of off the top of my head to share.

The "Once Saved Always Saved doctrine" (OSAS)...according to scripture is a "damnable heresy" and a "fable" based on "feelings" and not The Word of God.



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[jessea]

I would like to offer a very simple and short answer to this great debate.

Hebrews 3:14 says, "For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end" - meaning that if we do not hold fast to the end, then we "had not become a partaker of Christ." Failure to persevere in faith is not a sign of losing salvation but of never having been a partaker of Christ.

[RaceRunner]

I would like to offer a very simple and short answer to this great debate.

Hebrews 3:14 says, "For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end" - meaning that if we do not hold fast to the end, then we "had not become a partaker of Christ." Failure to persevere in faith is not a sign of losing salvation but of never having been a partaker of Christ.

Let's quote that whole scripture passage:


Heb 3:12-15 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

14 For we are made partakers of Christ, IF we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.



Heb 10:35, 36 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.



Heb 10:38,39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

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[jessea]

So did putting the full context in the post change what I said?

Heb 10:38,39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

I believe that the above restates what I said from Hebrews 3:14.

[RaceRunner]

So did putting the full context in the post change what I said?

Yes.

Because you said:
Failure to persevere in faith is not a sign of losing salvation but of never having been a partaker of Christ. The KJV passage disagrees.

However, I'm not interested in debating one scripture with one person.....there are plenty of scriptures that are very clear on this subject.

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[jessea]

Oh, I guess I misunderstood your post which was titled "question for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Now I know that you wanted everyone to respond to your post not someone.

[RaceRunner]

Oh, I guess I misunderstood your post which was titled "question for everyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Know I know that you wanted everyone to respond to your post not someone.

I didn't start the thread...just heavily participating in it.

The person who started the thread asked for scriptures supporting both sides of the question....so I provided "a few" refuting OSAS.

We did debate this topic a couple of days ago in the doctrine section under the topic "perfection"....but I'm not going to debate here in the main forum, but try to stay in the spirit of this thread and just supply scripture.

My mistake is that I quoted your post when I supplied the full KJV passage of the scripture you supplied. I should have just supplied the full passage without comment or quote. Scripture can certainly stand alone without the help of my commentary.

My apologies....besides this last post of explanation...I won't do it again. I goofed.

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[RaceRunner]

Bishops falling:

1Ti 3:6,7 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.


FORGIVENESS

Mar 11:25,26 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


STUMBLINGBLOCK: CAUSING A WEAK BROTHER TO FALL

Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.


GRUDGES

Jas 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.

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[RaceRunner]

Speaking to Christians:

1Pe 5:6-10

(8) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

(9) Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

[RaceRunner]

1Co 10:11-12
(11) Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
(12) Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.


Luk 9:62
(62) And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.

[RaceRunner]

For a " christian" to claim to sin everyday (while claiming to be saved) is to totally deny the complete life-changing power of the Blood of Jesus and purifying power of the Holy Ghost.

1Jo 3:1-9

(1) Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
(2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

(3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
(4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
(5) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
(6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
(7) Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
(8) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
(9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

But if we sin....

1Jn 2:1-6 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


Mat 5:37
(37) But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

Heb 10:26-32
(26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(32) But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;

35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

(38) Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
(39) But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.


1Jn 1:5-10, 2:1 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

And once again...

1Jn 2:1-3 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

[ImaPK]

WOW!!! I got saved ONCE when I was 13 and I have lived a life of sin since I was 14! I don't remember asking for forgiveness for things I've done over the last 40 years. Does OSAS mean I'm still saved? NOT IN MY BOOK! In THIS sinner's opinion,OSAS is a bunch of "feel good" HOGWASH! And don't lay it on me that "it's because you were raised that way". I've gone down this road before on J2. I AM A SINNER though some on here dispute that.(and some agree)A "good moral man" but a SINNER. What happened in my life 41 years ago DOES NOT"cover me" for the things I've done since!The best analogy I can give people(not scripture) is that if a PK does one good thing at an early age they will ALWAYS be known as a "good PK" no matter what they might do with the rest of their life.THAT'S HOGWASH TOO!!!!!!The flip side of that analogy holds true too. In some places I'm still known as a "bad PK".AND THAT'S ALSO HOGWASH!!!!