Rationed Health Care

Martha · Postby **Martha** » October 21st, 2009, 6:09 am

For your information. I think I'll stay away from Florida. Of course this will probably the same everywhere soon.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nation ... 6680.story

macgulley · Postby **macgulley** » October 21st, 2009, 7:31 am

The plan, which would guide Florida hospitals on how to ration scarce medical care during a severe flu outbreak, also calls for doctors to remove patients with poor prognoses from ventilators to treat those who have better chances of surviving. That decision would be made by the hospital.

That's scary!

TW · Postby TW » October 21st, 2009, 9:47 am

Actually this is very similar to the protocol used in the military in combat conditions. As a combat medic I was taught to treat the least seriously wound first in order to return the greastest number to duty as possible. When resources are limited, either by available medications and/or equipment, or by available personel/time, hard choices must be made. I don't envy those that will have to make those choices.

TW

forestwalker · Postby **forestwalker** » October 21st, 2009, 9:51 am

What they're talking about is more triage than rationing and is a standard (and very long-established) part of emergency planning.

PastorDaniel · Postby **PastorDaniel** » October 21st, 2009, 3:59 pm

Yep...I've been in EMT training events and serve as a hospital Chaplain...this is unfortunately a part of normal emergency planning...the idea and goal is to SAVE as many as possible...so they will not use resources on those that CAN'T be saved when there are those that CAN be saved...

I wouldn't want to make the decision...but it is quite standard...and one has to realize that this is for emergency pandemic situations...NOT everyday care or protocol.

macgulley · Postby **macgulley** » October 22nd, 2009, 2:41 am

Does this quote bother anyone?

The goal, the plan says, is to focus care on patients whose lives could be saved and who would be most likely to improve. While it says those decisions are not to be made based on patients' perceived social worth or role, the plan calls for different rules for some populations.

Mike Vande · Postby **Mike Vande** » October 22nd, 2009, 4:06 am

macgulley wrote:Does this quote bother anyone?

The goal, the plan says, is to focus care on patients whose lives could be saved and who would be most likely to improve. While it says those decisions are not to be made based on patients' perceived social worth or role, the plan calls for different rules for some populations.

I wonder how much of the planning involves the patient's economic viability, or ability to pay for services. I still remember the chill I got when I overhead two surgeons cold-bloodedly discussing whether a year's income was enough to charge to save a man's life or not. I think they were talking about the patient's income, but with people like that, you never really know...

forestwalker · Postby **forestwalker** » October 22nd, 2009, 8:18 am

macgulley wrote:Does this quote bother anyone?
The goal, the plan says, is to focus care on patients whose lives could be saved and who would be most likely to improve. While it says those decisions are not to be made based on patients' perceived social worth or role, the plan calls for different rules for some populations.

Depends on the specifics. What's written there is too vague to judge. If at it's heart it's essentially saying x, y, and z are not really worth saving, then yes it's troubling. If it's just spelling out reasonable guidelines for when there's a "tie" in terms of prognosis but not enough resources for all (e.g. a child has priority over adults, a parent of young children has priority over an elderly person, etc.), then no.

Mike Vande wrote:I wonder how much of the planning involves the patient's economic viability, or ability to pay for services. I still remember the chill I got when I overhead two surgeons cold-bloodedly discussing whether a year's income was enough to charge to save a man's life or not. I think they were talking about the patient's income, but with people like that, you never really know...

Such considerations are one of the reasons these types of policies are put in place before-hand. They limit to some extent the power money and personal connection have on the decision-making process.

oletimer · Postby **oletimer** » October 22nd, 2009, 2:00 pm

macgulley Posted: Does this quote bother anyone?

The goal, the plan says, is to focus care on patients whose lives could be saved and who would be most likely to improve. While it says those decisions are not to be made based on patients' perceived social worth or role, the plan calls for different rules for some populations.

For a second there I thought I was getting a quote from the health care plan that Obama is trying to pass.

Jude 2