could someone help me out with this?

[dawgs10]

He has committed the crime who profits by it" -- Lucius Annaeus Seneca

here is another since you like quotes.

[MacUser]

tell it to the person that cant work because of physical or mental illness. tell them that they are extremely insulting. thats your words.

You and I both know this is being incredibly abused. A High School friend of mine "acted crazy" so he could get a "Crazy Check" because he was tired of working. It worked too for a while.. until he died of drug abuse.

It's about being personally responsible. We are all compassionate and will help.. but this needs to come from the Church ( that you said could not handle it because the have no $$$$ ) & Charities etc instead of Govt.

My above friend.. didn't need a "crazy check" he needed Christ and rehab. That Govt check didn't help him... it killed him.

[dawgs10]

how about this one.

Great abundance of riches cannot be gathered and kept by any man without sin" -- Desiderius Erasmus

[TW]

tell it to the person that cant work because of physical or mental illness. tell them that they are extremely insulting. thats your words.

dawgs,
No one has said that there aren't some people that are disabled to the point that they cannot work. There are. However having a disability should not be an automatic free ride at the taxpayers expense. Here's a quote that you might find interesting.

The census also found that many disabled people are still holding jobs. In the age group of people 21 to 64, nearly 46 percent were still employed. Thirty-one percent of people with severe disabilities were employed, and 75 percent of those with disabilities labeled as non-severe were employed.

http://ezinearticles.com/?How-Many-Disa ... id=1918829

I was one of that 31%. I had enough self-respect not to go on the government dole when I could work and be productive. We have other members of this board that work everyday with disabilities.

Consider also that prior to the 1930s there was no government welfare system. That system now consumes 16% of our total tax burden.

If you really want to get mad about something try this. Take a drive through the "public housing projects" in any large metropolitan area on a warm summer evening. Count the number of healthy, able bodied men hanging out on the street corners dealing their "nickle bags" or "rocks." Check out the number of young women with half a dozen kids and no husband. Then and only then come back and talk top me about the government responsibilities.


TW

[dawgs10]

Consider also that prior to the 1930s there was no government welfare system. That system now consumes 16% of our total tax burden.


that was the time that so many starved to death because of the great depression. and that is why the system is in place now. because the rich getting richer at the cost of humanity.

[TW]

Consider also that prior to the 1930s there was no government welfare system. That system now consumes 16% of our total tax burden.


that was the time that so many starved to death because of the great depression. and that is why the system is in place now. because the rich getting richer at the cost of humanity.

dawgs that has to e one of the stupidest things that you said in this entire exchange. The rich get rich by making smart decisions, not at the cost of humanity. You don't get rich doing stupid things.

And prior to the Great Depression churches filled the roll of provider for the truly needy. The Stock Market collapse only acted as the trigger for the depression. When the average person saw what happened to the big money on Wall St. they panicked and the rush on the banks ensued. when the Banks did not have enough cash on hand they failed which deepened the depression. As the depression deepened the churches found it increasingly difficult to meet the needs of those they helped. That is when FDR instituted the Aid for Dependent Children, the first of the socialistic welfare programs.

Put your bleeding heart back in your chest, so it can do it's job. Open your eyes to the reality of a socialist government that operates beyond the Constitutional limits. And use your brain to find answers to the questions that we face in this nation.


TW

[Brian]

Consider also that prior to the 1930s there was no government welfare system. That system now consumes 16% of our total tax burden.


that was the time that so many starved to death because of the great depression. and that is why the system is in place now. because the rich getting richer at the cost of humanity.

dawgs, let me ask a question....you cast wealth (profit) in such a bad light that your true colors of envy come shining through.

The Scriptures tells the parable of the rich vineyard owner, where he paid the fair daily wages to all his hired hands. To each worker he and they made there respective agreements and the workers went there way and did what they agreed on. Only later, when motivated by greed, jealousy and envy they grumbled against the vineyard owner. What was his reply? His reply was "didn't you agree with me on your wages? Yet now you are unhappy because of what someone else is getting? (envy) Is it not my (the vineyard owner) own money to do with as I please?"

Enter in.....Unions who want to take whatever they want and run a business in the ground. The business is looked at as big and greedy and blah blah.....IT THE BUSINESSES OWN MONEY!

You may say that the business only became wealthy on the backs of the workers. Well is that the case with the vineyard owner? Did he amass his wealth,...the wealth that provides a good and fair and honest days work for the average joe....did he amass that wealth "on the backs of his workers"? Funny, scripture doesn't cast him in a bad light at all....rather the workers. Hmmmm

[dawgs10]

Consider also that prior to the 1930s there was no government welfare system. That system now consumes 16% of our total tax burden.


that was the time that so many starved to death because of the great depression. and that is why the system is in place now. because the rich getting richer at the cost of humanity.

dawgs that has to e one of the stupidest things that you said in this entire exchange. The rich get rich by making smart decisions, not at the cost of humanity. You don't get rich doing stupid things.

And prior to the Great Depression churches filled the roll of provider for the truly needy. The Stock Market collapse only acted as the trigger for the depression. When the average person saw what happened to the big money on Wall St. they panicked and the rush on the banks ensued. when the Banks did not have enough cash on hand they failed which deepened the depression. As the depression deepened the churches found it increasingly difficult to meet the needs of those they helped. That is when FDR instituted the Aid for Dependent Children, the first of the socialistic welfare programs.

Put your bleeding heart back in your chest, so it can do it's job. Open your eyes to the reality of a socialist government that operates beyond the Constitutional limits. And use your brain to find answers to the questions that we face in this nation.


TW

everything you just described is true about the history of the economy. so why would repeat it.

[RamboPreacher]

http://www.breitbart.tv/congressman-assaults-student-on-washington-sidewalk/

he asked many times who the person was. i would think i would be very careful who jump up in my face in public as well. the guy is lucky he didnt deck him.

Have you slipped a gear??? The man is an elected official. Reporters accost congressmen daily asking them position questions. Goes with the job. The kid was clean, polite, well-dressed and not rude or aggressive. The Congressman ADMITS he was wrong and apologized. Only the rabid kool-aid guzzlers defend his outrageous actions.

I had this argument on FB...

while I will not defend or condone his actions, part of my challenge with the clip is that we don't see what all is going on. the students won't answer who they are. to me it seems that there is much more going on in teh context than simply students videotaping and asking an elected official a question about supporting Obama. I personally catagorize the video with a "sound-bit" or perhaps watching only the end of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydi5IPS3CHk

[MacUser]

National Debt Now Tops American Fears
http://blog.heritage.org/2010/06/10/nat ... can-fears/

Gallup recently asked a sampling of Americans, “How serious of a threat to the future of the United States do you consider the following…” The results are clear: Americans judge the national debt on par with terrorism as the top threat facing the nation. Further, independents – a crucial constituency during an election year – believe the debt to be the single most threatening issue facing the country, even topping terrorism.


National Debt Set to Skyrocket
http://www.heritage.org/budgetchartbook ... -skyrocket



In the past, wars and the Great Depression contributed to rapid but temporary increases in the national debt. Over the next few decades, runaway spending on Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid will drive the debt to unsustainable levels

Obama’s budget (the only budget available because Congressional Democrats refuse to draft one this year) sees debt held by the public hitting 90 percent of GDP by 2020.

******

So are we going to be good stewards, responsible parents of what we have or are we going to "get all we can" and pass the buck to the most innocent and future unborn?

[TW]

dawgs I am going to challenge you to put your brain to work and arrive at a fair and equitable solution to this problem.

Here are the statistical facts:

1.) The overall median personal income for all individuals 25 years or above was $32,140 (2005).

2.) The overall tax burden for an American is 40% (Federal, state, and local).

3.) That yields a monetary tax burden on the average tax payer of $12,856 per year.

4.) 16% of the total tax burden goes directly into welfare programs.

5.) The results is that $2056.96 per year goes to welfare out of your taxes.

My challenge to you is to find a way that I don't have to give some deadbeat that's too lazy to work $2000 of my hard earned money.


Let me ask you, what could you provide for your family with an additional $2000 a year to spend. This is why people are against new taxes or tax increases. Now consider the situation that more and more Americans are going to faced with, retirement and Social Security. That $2000 would go a long way to help them if they could keep it in their pocket rather than the government's.


TW

[dawgs10]

first of all no flat tax or a national sales tax unless those that are all ready retired are exept, its not fare to them. they have already paid their share over their life time and now should be able to retire without federal tax unless, they have additional income. the additional income should be taxed. second i would have tax based on income. the more you have the more you pay. of course this will not be popular to mac or a others on jude 2 but the more you have the more is expected and thats the way it is. then any company that has its headquarters in the US and ships more jobs out than creates for the US will be taxed higher than those that build jobs in the US. people use this country for its freedoms to prosper and then ship jobs out to prosper more should be punished and their money is the best way to do that. this will lighting the load of debt. also, a federal tax of 100% on cigs and alcohol that goes directly to the debt, trust me people will still purchase both. also, ristrictions on what you can buy with some "food stamp" cards should be made more wide spread. no cigs, no cotton candy, so on and so on. if we narrow these things i bet some that are on food stamp programs will not spend as much with them. nothing bothers me more than people buying thier winstons on the federal gov. tab. (this is abuse and should be changed). luxary tax could also be used in a much more agressive way. more incentives to those that donate to non profit organizations would help as a whole as well. allowing people like warren buffet that give over half of their profits away to be rewarded with no taxes at all. but they would have to donate to organizations in the United States for this break. as this money is used to help those in the United States the Federal Gov. could back down on some of the help they hand out. thats good for starters, i will get back with on a few more ideas after i mow the grass.

[Brian]

the more you have the more you pay. of course this will not be popular to mac or a others on jude 2 but the more you have the more is expected and thats the way it is. then any company that has its headquarters in the US and ships more jobs out than creates for the US will be taxed higher than those that build jobs in the US. people use this country for its freedoms to prosper and then ship jobs out to prosper more should be punished and their money is the best way to do that. this will lighting the load of debt.

You have just described socialism at it's finest.....

People should absolutely NOT "pay more if they have more" in the sense that a higher percent should be paid. That's why I like the Fair Tax. Same percent for everyone and the tax is on what you spend, not how much you make. For the poor that means if you only make a $100 dollars a week you keep $100 a week. Same for the wealthy, but I bet the wealthy are spending 10 times more than the poor even make.....so there ya go, spend more pay more.

And also America would benefit from the Fair Tax because then there would be no loopholes for people to get out of paying. Illegals would pay up there 23% when they bought stuff...same for the over 40 million foreign tourist who visit every year. The money they spend would go directly into our tax system. And not just a sales tax but the entire 23% that every other American pays. Thats crafty.

Dawgs you have got to move past this idea that just because one man may have more assets than the next guy that it's somehow that mans obligation to all of a sudden take on more burden than the other guy. Why? Just solely because he has more? That idea seems so childish. Example: our 4 year old son has a little play pal that lives across the street. He is 5....anyway,..from time to time if Zack (my son) gets a new toy or a toy that comes in multiples, the neighbor kid will aways ask "hey since he has more than one of those toys can I have one of them?" Its childish dawgs, to look at someone else and say "since you have more money can I have some of it?"

What you are describing seems so midevil to me. Like in the days where Kings and Dictators just have layed a heavy tax burden on whomever they saw fit with nothing more than the flash of his hand the entire assets and money could just be taken away. Dawgs, you may not realize it brother but that is what you are advocating here.

[TW]

OK dawgs, now that we have you think of solutions rather than just attacking those that have different views, here are some more bits of information to help (?).

second i would have tax based on income. the more you have the more you pay. of course this will not be popular to mac or a others on jude 2 but the more you have the more is expected and thats the way it is.

We already have a graduated, or progressive income tax. The result of which are that the top 1% of the income earners are paying 40.4% of the total Federal Personal Income Taxes collected each year. Do you still want to burden them more?

a federal tax of 100% on cigs and alcohol that goes directly to the debt

Currently cigarettes are being taxed at over 400%. So your idea would get the support of all the smokers in the country because it would result in about a $3.00 per pack drop in the price of the cigarettes.

Now I have not researched the tax vs cost of alcohol because of the greater number of forms that it can be consumed in, but I think it likely that it too is being taxed at extremely high rates. The truth is that the government is already taxing everything they can except air. And it won't be long before they figure out a way to tax that.

I am glad to see that you are now thinking about options, it's much more productive than screaming about the problem. As I look back over the history of the last 70 -80 years it is obvious that both the Democrats and the Republicans have failed the people of this country. If it takes a radical fringe group to get their attention then I will support that radical fringe group as long as they strive to restore a government within the framework of the Constitution.


TW

[dawgs10]

the money is not going to the debt from cig tax. and we dont have the same type of tax on alcohol. read the rest of the message my friend. 100% sales hick on cigs and alcohol with the revenue going toward the debt would be a better way to put it i guess.