tithing

[Full Quiver]

Scooter, I hope you didn't take offense to my post as I was not meaning to point to anyone specifically. Just speaking from my experiences. I know you can pay the bills because you work outside of the pulpit.

My questions about missions are honest though. Is the same message preached overseas?

I agree with the special offering example. Tell the need and God's people will give.

I once gave the last $5 to my name in a missions offering. I was encouraged to believe that whatever I had was not enough to meet my needs but would go so much farther on the field. I in faith gave it cheerfully and excitedly. I did not have enough gasoline to get home. Many would call that foolish and maybe it was. On the way home, far from home, I was out of gas. We had been praying for miles for God to somehow help us. I pulled in a gas station ONLY after feeling lead of God to do so. Wendy went to the bathroom and got on her knees to pray (I was unaware till afterward). I pumped $7 worth of gas which filled up that tank back in those days. I went in and before I could explain my plight to the cashier a rough looking biker said you don't have the money to pay for your gas; it's on me. We left rejoicing and knowing that GOD increased our faith.

That had nothing to do with tithing but was a special offering received for missions. I didn't have the money to give if you looked at it logically but when the Spirit moves people walk in faith. Tithing is systematic and not if faith.

[Pastor Bill]

True Scooter, BUT how strict are we really with that? how many in your church aren't faithful with their tithes, but you still welcome them in, and love them till they grow in their knowledge and step up in that area?

I don't see you kicking them out the door for not paying or shaming them into it either. IF all were as faithful as they should be, you probably wouldn't have to work outside of the church, but you understand it takes some time to grow into that understanding, and step up.

[scooter]

Scooter, I hope you didn't take offense to my post as I was not meaning to point to anyone specifically. Just speaking from my experiences. I know you can pay the bills because you work outside of the pulpit.

My questions about missions are honest though. Is the same message preached overseas?

I agree with the special offering example. Tell the need and God's people will give.

I once gave the last $5 to my name in a missions offering. I was encouraged to believe that whatever I had was not enough to meet my needs but would go so much farther on the field. I in faith gave it cheerfully and excitedly. I did not have enough gasoline to get home. Many would call that foolish and maybe it was. On the way home, far from home, I was out of gas. We had been praying for miles for God to somehow help us. I pulled in a gas station ONLY after feeling lead of God to do so. Wendy went to the bathroom and got on her knees to pray (I was unaware till afterward). I pumped $7 worth of gas which filled up that tank back in those days. I went in and before I could explain my plight to the cashier a rough looking biker said you don't have the money to pay for your gas; it's on me. We left rejoicing and knowing that GOD increased our faith.

That had nothing to do with tithing but was a special offering received for missions. I didn't have the money to give if you looked at it logically but when the Spirit moves people walk in faith. Tithing is systematic and not if faith.

Response: You owe God .70 cents.lol

You pumped gas with no way to pay?


I understand. I do agree that God honors steps of faith such as giving your last little bit.

I've just not been down to the last little bit since I became faithful in my finances. I just kind of want to testify to that.

[lance82]

dawgs10 wrote "i was not implying anything. Jesus said the act of tithing was right and good. but the intentions of the religious leaders was to be seen or to be religious. the fact is the act of tithing according to Jesus is right and or good."

Response: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." Matthew 23:25

LAW... He was talking to them regarding the OT rules that they were still living under. How do you see this as part of the New Covenant? Jesus himself lived under the same LAW. Do we then conclude that we must sacrifice animals because He did?

[Pastor Bill]

dawgs10 wrote "i was not implying anything. Jesus said the act of tithing was right and good. but the intentions of the religious leaders was to be seen or to be religious. the fact is the act of tithing according to Jesus is right and or good."

Response: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." Matthew 23:25

LAW... He was talking to them regarding the OT rules that they were still living under. How do you see this as part of the New Covenant? Jesus himself lived under the same LAW. Do we then conclude that we must sacrifice animals because He did?

Christ also said I came not to abolish the law... I think we take things out of context when we try to say since we are under a new covenant the law should be ignored, we are no longer under the bondage of the law, but the law still can provide good standards to live by, not requirements for salvation, but guidelines to help guide our lives. Those guidelines don't replace the Spirit of God as some try to imply, but instead all work together, the Spirit leading us beyond just the guidelines into the specifics of our lives, at the same time, God didn't tell us to throw them away.

I will eat a meal tonight when I come home, I plan for that, it's my regular habit, it's good for me. God may lead me to fast, or may bless me with a feast I didn't plan for, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't plan on eating tonight, it just means that the standard isn't everything I need, just a general guideline.

If you don't agree, then only eat when the spirit leads (not your fleshly hunger or desire, not a well balanced plan laid out by our human minds and planned for ahead of time, but only as the spirit leads) I doubt that we would be healthy staying that way for long. Financially Tithing is that same type of thing, it gives us a general guideline to plan for, while we also let the spirit lead us beyond that plan.

[MacUser]

Wow.. get busy and this thread doubles..

[lance82]

Pastor Bill wrote... "Christ also said I came not to abolish the law... I think we take things out of context when we try to say since we are under a new covenant the law should be ignored, we are no longer under the bondage of the law, but the law still can provide good standards to live by, not requirements for salvation, but guidelines to help guide our lives. Those guidelines don't replace the Spirit of God as some try to imply, but instead all work together, the Spirit leading us beyond just the guidelines into the specifics of our lives, at the same time, God didn't tell us to throw them away.

I will eat a meal tonight when I come home, I plan for that, it's my regular habit, it's good for me. God may lead me to fast, or may bless me with a feast I didn't plan for, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't plan on eating tonight, it just means that the standard isn't everything I need, just a general guideline.

If you don't agree, then only eat when the spirit leads (not your fleshly hunger or desire, not a well balanced plan laid out by our human minds and planned for ahead of time, but only as the spirit leads) I doubt that we would be healthy staying that way for long. Financially Tithing is that same type of thing, it gives us a general guideline to plan for, while we also let the spirit lead us beyond that plan."

Again, Brother, I'm in agreement that scriptures used out of context cause grief to the Spirit. However, tithing is just not there any more than circumcision or abstaining from certain meats are there. No where are we instructed to do more that live by the Spirit's guidance on this matter. When we introduce a "standard" that doesn't exist, we have already hung the yoke. To me it is no different than introducing a standard regarding hand washing before entering the temple or how we are to prepare foods to make them "kosher" for the believer.

I really believe that on another note that we(starting with me) would be allot healthier as a people if we allowed the Spirit to guide our eating habits!

[MacUser]

Gentlemen.
Here Goes. Read. Heb 7:18

You are either FREE from the Law of Moses ( that specifically targets Jews ) .. Dead to it as Paul states.. or you are not. Jesus didn't come so we could keep the Law better so you are not stealing from Jesus in this context. If tithing this is used to control, manipulate, generate fake rewards from God etc.. it's witchcraft.

You will give ALL to your Father as Christ did.. out of FAITH. ANYTHING not done in FAITH is dead works. Manipulated Religious obligation payments can literally pass as SINNING under the New Testament.

Sin: Falling short: hamartia, hamartema, hamartano. The central idea is to "miss the mark." If you are giving because of a Law or religious peer/control/obligation.. anything other than FAITH... you just missed it.


And.. If you desire to keep just a few "good" laws you must keep them ALL.

Galatians 3:10-13
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."[c] 11. Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."[d] 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."[e] 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us...

Jesus taught under the Law.. but after John 15:15.. He FREED the Jews and us from being a servant. If we believe on Him.. we are FREE.

Galatians 3:1-13
1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

Quickly... Today's Christian Church treats the Law as a borrowed offense because it never really applied to US. We "gentiles" received only CHRIST. We have serious covenant confusion and that is a trick of the enemy. I pray revelation on us all.

God Bless.

Guys. Again let me quote a great post above.. Either you are FREE or you are NOT. The words are not unclear. Real growth/understanding comes from receiving Truth and not past religious experiences. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the Truth and the Life". Jesus will set you 50% Free? 75% Free... maybe 85% free? Whoo hooo.. 100% FREE!

Paul said the law was added because of unbelief. ADDED. Do you believe Christ did it all or are you still living invoking religious performance via the law? Or is your giving is done as a SON and in Faith.. that is wonderful!!

Love to all and I pray revelation on each as God directs in this. Truth trumps indoctrination. It's not about us at all. It's about Him.

Behold the Lamb!!

[Pastor Bill]

Actually brother there is a difference, the dietary laws were changed with Paul's vision, tithing was supported by Christ as a good thing, I agree with you it should not be pushed in the manner you are describing, but I also have not seen that done to the point that you are describing from HQ either.

[oletimer]

good post

[dawgs10]

dawgs10 wrote "i was not implying anything. Jesus said the act of tithing was right and good. but the intentions of the religious leaders was to be seen or to be religious. the fact is the act of tithing according to Jesus is right and or good."

Response: "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean." Matthew 23:25

LAW... He was talking to them regarding the OT rules that they were still living under. How do you see this as part of the New Covenant? Jesus himself lived under the same LAW. Do we then conclude that we must sacrifice animals because He did?

and yet you still cant remove the simple fact that he said it was good and right if you have the right intentions. you cant make it go away.

[dolfan]

http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-lib ... and-beyond


You don't have to agree with it, but it is pretty strong.

[oletimer]

Personally I think that tithing is a sign of spiritual maturely. The principal was started with Cain and Abe and has been followed thrugh out all of the written history of the bible. In all cases I find that God aproved of it, even included it in the Law. It has been a ource for the survivial of the ministry (it takes money believe or not) and in the Law that point was made, (School Master). As pastor I'm not turning anybody out anybody for not paying tithes, but I want appoint them to leadership.

Mt 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

I believe that we should follow this first and foremost. In doing so it is required that we be faithful in all things, to the which paying tiths is included, but not limited to tithing.

What we do for the Lord then we need to find the JOY in doing it.

[dawgs10]

Gentlemen.
Here Goes. Read. Heb 7:18

You are either FREE from the Law of Moses ( that specifically targets Jews ) .. Dead to it as Paul states.. or you are not. Jesus didn't come so we could keep the Law better so you are not stealing from Jesus in this context. If tithing this is used to control, manipulate, generate fake rewards from God etc.. it's witchcraft.

You will give ALL to your Father as Christ did.. out of FAITH. ANYTHING not done in FAITH is dead works. Manipulated Religious obligation payments can literally pass as SINNING under the New Testament.

Sin: Falling short: hamartia, hamartema, hamartano. The central idea is to "miss the mark." If you are giving because of a Law or religious peer/control/obligation.. anything other than FAITH... you just missed it.


And.. If you desire to keep just a few "good" laws you must keep them ALL.

Galatians 3:10-13
10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."[c] 11. Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."[d] 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."[e] 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us...

Jesus taught under the Law.. but after John 15:15.. He FREED the Jews and us from being a servant. If we believe on Him.. we are FREE.

Galatians 3:1-13
1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

Quickly... Today's Christian Church treats the Law as a borrowed offense because it never really applied to US. We "gentiles" received only CHRIST. We have serious covenant confusion and that is a trick of the enemy. I pray revelation on us all.

God Bless.

Guys. Again let me quote a great post above.. Either you are FREE or you are NOT. The words are not unclear. Real growth/understanding comes from receiving Truth and not past religious experiences. Jesus answered, "I am the way and the Truth and the Life". Jesus will set you 50% Free? 75% Free... maybe 85% free? Whoo hooo.. 100% FREE!

Paul said the law was added because of unbelief. ADDED. Do you believe Christ did it all or are you still living invoking religious performance via the law? Or is your giving is done as a SON and in Faith.. that is wonderful!!

Love to all and I pray revelation on each as God directs in this. Truth trumps indoctrination. It's not about us at all. It's about Him.

Behold the Lamb!!

mack, as a christian you are free. free to do the right thing.

[Full Quiver]

Some people think not going to the movies is a sign of spiritual maturity. I happen to think that because I can go to the movie and not sin then i am more mature than those that just abstain for fear they will sin.


Anyhow,

Paul did not receive a vision about food, peter did and the law was not changed then. Jesus torn the vail in two. The law was changed when HE said it is finished. He NAILED it to the cross. Whether you guys realize it or not you practice a form of the Pharisees religion. You keep what you want to and don't the others in order to control others and pretend to be more spiritually mature and that says a lot coming from a once hard core Pharisee like myself.

No offense meant but please cast off all religion and just love Jesus for whom HE is, our Saviour!