Well, COGOP leaders: where do we stand?

[Pastor Gary]

The first lady of the United States drew huge cheers at the DNC tonight when she said "...if proud Americans can be who they are and boldly stand at the altar with who they love, then surely, surely, we can give everyone in this country a fair chance at that great American dream."

In other words, she personified Isaiah 5:20 - "Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness..." — but didn't her dress look pretty, and isn't she a nice lady? One of the most popular and admired 1st Ladies in U.S. history, according to polls, and standing before the nation proud to promote something contrary to scripture.

Will my peers speak out or remain silent? Do we answer to God, or are we hirelings, fearful of offending the tithers and losing our congregations? Will people stand with our doctrinal position of vote contrary to it?

The silence of the men and women of God who claim to be our leaders is deafening. Where is the righteous anger and the public stand in the tradition of Bonhoeffer and Oscar Romero?

[scooter]

She did a great job if you can get past gay marriage and abortion. I can't.

[Mat]

I don't recall a statement when Obama endorsed same-sex marriage or was it addressed at the Assemby. The fact that the ruling party has both abortion and same-sex marriage in their "platform" has not been a subject of concern. I would speculate that just as the COGOP does not address the political issues of other nations so the focus here is not making comment on the "latest" social evolution. Remember, just because the International offices are in the USA not not mean anyone there should comment on the policy of just one nation. Like the UN, they may be here, but their's is a "global" leadership. Perhaps the North Amercian Presbyter could say something, but he also covers Canada, and Canadians do not like to be included in American issues (my experiance is Canadians do like Americans or their politics). So that leaves state overseers, but all of them are not US citizens, so I'm not sure they should say anything as a body. The same is true for all the US pastors, and I'm not sure all of them (us) are even here legally, so it would be best if we do not address USA policy, less we have to address "other" issues. That leaves the "lowest" level of ministry, the local pastor who must stand alone before his congregation. Well come on, don't we pay the "higher-ups" to make the bold vision statements? Pastors are just the shepherds in the field, our votes don't even count at the Assembly, our job is to build our local church and mail in those checks (and reports) every month.

For the record, as a pastor (not speaking for anyone else in COGOP) I have taken notice of the current issue.

Mat

[Phil Hoover]

Christians must answer...

And I know some very godly people who always vote "D" in the General Elections....you know them too...

But, my conscience won't let me vote for her husband anymore--I voted for him when he ran for U S Senator in 2004....and haven't since.

Some issues (God's plan for life, for example) trump EVERYTHING else--even one's "likeability"--and I truly do like the First Lady...but she is absolutely WRONG and AMISS in her moral stands.

[Pastor Gary]

"The Church of God of Prophecy is politically neutral, but we are not morally neutral. We have stated positions on issues of personal and public morality that often become matters of political debate during elections. While we do not endorse any candidate or political party, we do hold this position: it is incompatible with holding ministry credentials in the Church of God of Prophecy to actively support the election of persons or parties holding positions in direct opposition to our deeply held moral convictions."

(Or, find another church or another political party, because you are being double-minded.)

Too blunt?

[Mat]

"The Church of God of Prophecy is politically neutral, but we are not morally neutral. We have stated positions on issues of personal and public morality that often become matters of political debate during elections. While we do not endorse any candidate or political party, we do hold this position: it is incompatible with holding ministry credentials in the Church of God of Prophecy to actively support the election of persons or parties holding positions in direct opposition to our deeply held moral convictions."

(Or, find another church or another political party, because you are being double-minded.)

Too blunt?

You have quotation marks around the statement. Is there a source, or are you the source?

How does this address the issues of same-sex marriage?

Mat

[Pastor Gary]

"The Church of God of Prophecy is politically neutral, but we are not morally neutral. We have stated positions on issues of personal and public morality that often become matters of political debate during elections. While we do not endorse any candidate or political party, we do hold this position: it is incompatible with holding ministry credentials in the Church of God of Prophecy to actively support the election of persons or parties holding positions in direct opposition to our deeply held moral convictions."

(Or, find another church or another political party, because you are being double-minded.)

Too blunt?

You have quotation marks around the statement. Is there a source, or are you the source?

How does this address the issues of same-sex marriage?

Mat

I'm the source. Just some thoughts for consideration. It directly addresses same-sex marriage since the official COGOP position has been stated:

"The Biblical Institution of Marriage.” Within this document, our organization defined what we believe as biblically valid marriages. In Section II, Item C-4, the document reads as follows:

Recommendation 1 under Section II states the following:
Due to the departure of societies from Judeo-Christian values, the Church renounces biblically unlawful unions, such as same-sex, incestuous, or polygamous marriages, even if they are legal in the eyes of local, state, or national governments (Important Business Acts of the 94th International Assembly, page 25).

[Mat]

I would suggest that the statement from the "church" is not all that "timely" or inspiring, and since same-sex marriage is not the law of the land in most states, it does not relate to the current statements of the President or his Party. As to your statement, many would say that historic racism is as great a sin as same-sex marriage and that we should not be a one issues voter anyway. Just sayin bro!

Mat

[Pastor Gary]

...many would say that historic racism is as great a sin as same-sex marriage and that we should not be a one issues voter anyway.

I agree! The Republicans are not the party of racism... it's the DEMOCRATS who have the record to hide there.

The Republican Party record - facts, not feelings.

Dwight D. Eisenhower, a Republican, ended segregation with more than 80% of all Republicans in congress voting with him while the majority of Democrats filibustered ending segregation including John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Baines Johnson, Al Gore Senior, Robert Byrd and hundreds of others.

The Democratic Party invented segregation, invented Jim Crow Laws and were founders of the KKK.

The Democrats even filibustered their OWN President when Lyndon Johnson saw the light and passed voter rights... it took 80% of Republicans in congress to pass voter rights over the resistance of the Democrats.

As Senate Majority leader, LBJ filibustered Eisenhower's desegregation actions and Democrats Bull Connor and George Wallace were leaders in the resistance to racial equality.

It was only in the name of political expediency that LBJ did an about-face and went along with voter rights legislation. Said LBJ on Air Force One ... "If we can pass voter rights, we'll have these n*ggers voting for us for the next 200 years." And sadly, the rest is history.

Republicans also gave us the 19th amendment... women's right to vote and equal pay for equal work.

Clean air and water? Republican Richard Nixon gave us the EPA.

Regie Hamm did a far better job of explaining it: http://www.regiehamm.com/blog/ds-and-rs/

[Full Quiver]

I'm not CoGoP (no secret there) but our Pastor called the local news yesterday, they came by before service last night, and he gave them a statement that aired at 10pm last night.

Middle TN knows where Cornerstone stands!

[Mat]

Pastor Gary,

If we tell people who support the "wrong" party to give up their ministry (and find another church), how is that different from the past COGOP that told ministers to leave if they did not "believe" this was the true church?

Secondly, the trend of the COGOP has been to move from a restrictive "closed" position to one that is less judgmental and more "open", so your suggestion is a throw-back to the past.

Thirdly, by their lack of a statement the IO may be revealing that they think, or some may, Obama a leader they want to emulate.

So Gary, don't be so "old school"!

Mat

[Pastor Gary]

I'm pretty sure everyone knew I wasn't hoping anyone would change churches; I was suggesting they change parties. LOL

[Mat]

Gary,
I’m a registered Independent and I will not join a political party just to be part of the COGOP. If I must change I will join the Libertarian Party. Let the democrats and republicans light their fireworks at their party. Libertarians will “light” some thing else to celebrate. After all, some say a little drinkin and smokin won’t keep you out of heaven, Libertarians say it’s OK to “combine the fun into one”. So to the democrat and republican parties I say, “a pox on both your houses” or is that a little “pot” in both your houses?

Gary, the situation in America is that the authority of the “church” to speak to moral issues has melted away like ice on the surface of lake in spring time. There comes a point where you can’t tell what drop of water was ice and what drop of water was lake. Pronouncements against social issues (like same-sex marriage) are really ment to please the “faithful” and do not change the unbeliever. The direction of this country will not be changed because some unknown leader of a minor denomination in Cleveland, TN says “we” stand against same-sex marriage, or abortion, or anything else. At one time we declared that we were against divorce and remarriage, yet it happened in increasing numbers in the country and it happened to us. If we do not have our own “house” in order, can we really declare Biblical truths with power? I’m don’t think this is a “big enough issues” to cause supporters of Obama to stop voting for him. Christians survived Nero in Rome (well some did), I guess we can survive Obama in America.

Mat

[Pastor Gary]

Interesting. I am not a registered ANYTHING. Never have been.

[RamboPreacher]

I am pro-life, and not just anti-abortion.

further, I can not support a government representative that is not only pro-choice, but is anti-pro-life.

further, I do realize that we live in a very fallen world that it is groaning... and that this topic is sometimes not one of post-premarital sex, contraceptive - and there are always variables. and I do NOT condemn those women who have been through this ordeal and have repented, or those seeking help, etc.

I think a big challenge for me is that without an idealistic theocracy, "Biblical-morals" shouldn't be legislated - we are prone to failure. The challenge is that the issue is ALREADY legislated in a reversal perspective of a Biblical Paradigm. and as long as that is there, and needs dealt with, all other issues are moot - for me - as far as a political agenda is concerned. whether it be foreign aid, oil, money/economics, health insurance, "mandated charity" - or anything else. these other issues are just not that important to me as long as it is legal and tax-dollar sported (and even directed) to obtain abortions, and abortive contraceptives.

I have said it.