COGOP name change

[paul]

the overseas churches are affiliated with TCoG, TCoGNC, CoG, and the AoG. I have seen video footage, spoke with folks regularly on the phone and by email which has proven to reveal this disturbing truth to me. Each group sends resources and finances and for the conventions and videos they wave the flag and preach the message (which is not so different in most areas) of the group that happens to be in country at said time. I almost attended a trip to Haiti where the TCOG district overseer served as the interpretor for the TCOG NC missionary trip. I have watched the video and I attended BTI with the district overseer in question. He would call and email our offices in NC and act as a spy if you will because he would tell us what TCoG was doing in country. The same can be said of the Philippines and Africa.

FQ, why do you think this is ? I know of several reasons, but curious as to your oponion. BTW I'm not so much interested in the XXXCOGXXX thing as to the over all reason.

[one love]

No offense Kevin but what happened in the 20's and 30's in the "CoGoP' as far as growth is monumental when compared to the reorganization of TCoG.
TcoG organizes churches with 1 member in some cases and many that are 10 or smaller. Many of these churches have not grown to more than 20 members let alone even regular visitors in the past 15 years.

Let me give an example of the Nashville area TCoGs. They started with 23 folks after the SA in 93. Since they gained around 100 from the outlying counties. They all for the most part were members of the same church. Then several small churches were organized in those counties by transferring members. This is not growth but redistribution of membership.

Most of the growth has been children who have been reared in these churches since 93 and children that grew up in the 80's and have come back to the only thing they have ever known. This is not growth either. It is virtually the same as the polygamists groups do; have families and call it a big church. I am not referring to multiple marriages and statutory rape but merely families being called churches.

As far as churches overseas. I know for a fact, a solid fact, that the overseas churches are affiliated with TCoG, TCoGNC, CoG, and the AoG. I have seen video footage, spoke with folks regularly on the phone and by email which has proven to reveal this disturbing truth to me. Each group sends resources and finances and for the conventions and videos they wave the flag and preach the message (which is not so different in most areas) of the group that happens to be in country at said time. I almost attended a trip to Haiti where the TCOG district overseer served as the interpretor for the TCOG NC missionary trip. I have watched the video and I attended BTI with the district overseer in question. He would call and email our offices in NC and act as a spy if you will because he would tell us what TCoG was doing in country. The same can be said of the Philippines and Africa.

the 20's and thirties were only relative to starting over nothing else. I know of many countries and churches that do not do what you just claimed.
Second the point was there has been growth even with nabors and the stand situation, that was the point.

Let me give an example of the Nashville area TCoGs. They started with 23 folks after the SA in 93. Since they gained around 100 from the outlying counties. They all for the most part were members of the same church. Then several small churches were organized in those counties by transferring members. This is not growth but redistribution of membership.

the number of churches are irrellevant friend it was about growth, if more counties grew that much and then dispersed it still was more members. I personally dont like planting churches so close to others where they could ahve 1 or 2 good size churches they split into 5, it has been a practice of the church of God and COGOP from the begining.

[one love]

I have relatives that have been to haiti more then once and more then just a few family as well. I have heard nothing but good things about those in Haiti.

[Full Quiver]

Kevin, please don't get me wrong. I am not saying bad of the folks in Haiti or any other third world country. Just stating an observance of mine.

Yes CoGoP has for years divided congregations in such a way but when overseers report and testify that they added 5 new churches this year they are being very misleading.

FQ, why do you think this is ? I know of several reasons, but curious as to your oponion. BTW I'm not so much interested in the XXXCOGXXX thing as to the over all reason.

I'm not sure why Paul as I myself have never been on such a trip but if I had to guess I'd say these folks are so desperate that they will take any resource they can get from anyone. poverty will cause folks to do strange, what we call strange, things. Honestly though I am only speculating as to the why.

[one love]

Kevin, please don't get me wrong. I am not saying bad of the folks in Haiti or any other third world country. Just stating an observance of mine.

Yes CoGoP has for years divided congregations in such a way but when overseers report and testify that they added 5 new churches this year they are being very misleading.

FQ, why do you think this is ? I know of several reasons, but curious as to your oponion. BTW I'm not so much interested in the XXXCOGXXX thing as to the over all reason.

I'm not sure why Paul as I myself have never been on such a trip but if I had to guess I'd say these folks are so desperate that they will take any resource they can get from anyone. poverty will cause folks to do strange, what we call strange, things. Honestly though I am only speculating as to the why.

When i speak of a new church I am refering to a new church not switching members, i am refering to new members. I know of a church that had it split down the middle like you are saying, one is growing fast and the other is now suffering , I think that is wrong. So I would not say we have a new church. Now in that instance it was many new members that is why they split the church so they would not have to drive so far. Now one has 30-40 members and the other has 20-30. I would like for these to stay together and keep growing.

[one love]

over 2600 views something on this forum is getting one to read
Maybe a name change is more then a hot topic then expected. Or maybe they want the list of those
messages and Interpretations along with the message that was preached when it was given

Im kidding Im ending here with that, I figured you would laugh but I will compile a quick list and post it in the next day or so.

May the Lord bless

[Pastor Bill]

What was done to innocent people back in the 80's and before was not part of my ministry either. But it was done "in the name" of "COGOP" doctrine and ALL of our churches have suffered because of it. I think everyone here can think of someone who was formerly at their church with many gifts and talents to offer who were "not good" enough to officially be in our organization.

I personally believe that the COGOP should issue a statement that says "We apologize to those whom we have offended, excluded and ousted in the name of COGOP doctrine. Wearing jewelry should have never been a reason to end someone's sucessful ministry. Our exclusive mindset was cultish and we want to denounce ever believing that we were better than any other blood bought Christian. Shame on us. We were wrong. Please forgive us."

And, Brenda, if our US government has not made that statement to African Americans, they need to.

And no, I am NOT voting for Obama.....

At the 2002 Assembly an official statement denouncing our previous exclusive stance, an overwhelming majority of the church was in favor of it, but our governance structure doesn't work that way. Statements were made by the GO that fit what you are looking for if I remember correctly.

It is well and good to make that statement from the GA, but most people who were hurt by COGOP no longer attend the GA.

In addition to the newspapers and Christian magazines, I think it would be wise to send letters to former members/ministers. Many of them could be found from the last TC reunion.....

Also, to my knowledge, repenting for taking churches away from ministers because they put on their wedding ring has not been addressed, has it? I could have missed that session though. I am usually in the hallways.

And, I was there at the GA when the message and interpretation was given for us to repent. Obviously, we didn't get the right then or we would be twice what we are now. I wasn't necessarily talking about "teachings" being what we needed to repent of. Scripturally, what God hates is an arrogant and haughty attitude and we (as an organization) have been very guilty of that.

I wasn't saying that was effective, just that there was an attempt to make an official statement from the Assembly, but our structure is so restrictive we couldn't get it through. I don't think a statement from the GO or other officials will really change people's view of the CoGoP, it will always be seen as the exception while we still have pockets of people teaching these things.

[Rob]

After having spent the last several minutes in catching up with this post I want to make an observation that I have made. Most on here, myself included, would like to see some type of confession made from the IO/GA to ask for forgiveness about what we (COGOP) have done in our dealing with folks who have left over the years whom the COGOP has hurt, run off, etc.

I feel this would be good.

My problem with that is this, while reading this thread I have read (and I know that can be dangerous in and of itself) several post that have had some what I would call harsh words to them, and yet some who have posted them have never posted a confession to ask for forgiveness from the person they have called out.

Why should the General Church offer a confession of repentance, when we (Jude2 family, which could be considered a local church since we do call Pastor Gary our cyber Pastor) have not repented and asked forgiveness from our Brother & Sister's here?

When the NT church in the book of Acts was faced with the problem of circumcision there was a change in the hearts of the people in local churches that caused a change in the General Council meeting in Act's 15.

Maybe, just maybe if it started with us, then we could effect a real change within the general body of the COGOP. Isn't that really what we want? It is for me.

So let me begin, if I have stated something that has been offense to anyone here I ask God to forgive me and I ask you my Brother's and Sister's to forgive me as well.

God bless,

Pastor Rob

[dawgs10]

believe it or not there are some cogops that has a good past and a strong name in the community they minister in. it is not about the cogop name. it is about the people in local churchs doing what God called them to do or not. if you are on a dead in street with dead services and a us 4 and no more attiude than that is what your community sees as cogop. so dont think we need to blame the ga or the io. maybe we should take responsablity for are own ministry. if the name cogop is bad it is because of the people not the name. if the town you are in looks down on cogop its not because of the sign out front. more than likely someone hasnt been the hands and feet of God under the banner of cogop. but we live in a time when everyone wants to blame someone else for our problems. move the building, invest in your children,focus on the generation to come. move on and know that it is not io or ga, ITS YOU!!!

[DaJudge]

believe it or not there are some cogops that has a good past and a strong name in the community they minister in. it is not about the cogop name. it is about the people in local churchs doing what God called them to do or not. if you are on a dead in street with dead services and a us 4 and no more attiude than that is what your community sees as cogop. so dont think we need to blame the ga or the io. maybe we should take responsablity for are own ministry. if the name cogop is bad it is because of the people not the name. if the town you are in looks down on cogop its not because of the sign out front. more than likely someone hasnt been the hands and feet of God under the banner of cogop. but we live in a time when everyone wants to blame someone else for our problems. move the building, invest in your children,focus on the generation to come. move on and know that it is not io or ga, ITS YOU!!!

There's a lot of truth to what you said there. I would add this though. The "of Prophecy" part of our name drives away people who otherwise know nothing about us. People immediately think we are a cult with a name like that, even knowing nothing about us.

But you are right. Some COGOPs have been able to overcome the name in their communities. By the same token, some have done more damage to the church by their Pharisaical actions than the "of Prophecy" name ever could.

[dawgs10]

believe it or not there are some cogops that has a good past and a strong name in the community they minister in. it is not about the cogop name. it is about the people in local churchs doing what God called them to do or not. if you are on a dead in street with dead services and a us 4 and no more attiude than that is what your community sees as cogop. so dont think we need to blame the ga or the io. maybe we should take responsablity for are own ministry. if the name cogop is bad it is because of the people not the name. if the town you are in looks down on cogop its not because of the sign out front. more than likely someone hasnt been the hands and feet of God under the banner of cogop. but we live in a time when everyone wants to blame someone else for our problems. move the building, invest in your children,focus on the generation to come. move on and know that it is not io or ga, ITS YOU!!!

There's a lot of truth to what you said there. I would add this though. The "of Prophecy" part of our name drives away people who otherwise know nothing about us. People immediately think we are a cult with a name like that, even knowing nothing about us.

But you are right. Some COGOPs have been able to overcome the name in their communities. By the same token, some have done more damage to the church by their Pharisaical actions than the "of Prophecy" name ever could.

i agree with you as well. that is why i am all for the local church praying,seeking God, getting a vision and naming the local congregation with the understanding that they are a ministry of cogop and serving God and loving people are the focus, not the name or the organization being the focus.

[one love]

believe it or not there are some cogops that has a good past and a strong name in the community they minister in. it is not about the cogop name. it is about the people in local churchs doing what God called them to do or not. if you are on a dead in street with dead services and a us 4 and no more attiude than that is what your community sees as cogop. so dont think we need to blame the ga or the io. maybe we should take responsablity for are own ministry. if the name cogop is bad it is because of the people not the name. if the town you are in looks down on cogop its not because of the sign out front. more than likely someone hasnt been the hands and feet of God under the banner of cogop. but we live in a time when everyone wants to blame someone else for our problems. move the building, invest in your children,focus on the generation to come. move on and know that it is not io or ga, ITS YOU!!!

Dawgs I agree with you, again Im not COGOP anymore so If you would rather me step out of this I will. I hope I did not cause any offense as the other brother was talking about if so sorry.
You know I do find it interesting that with the new way you all want to go there are still some very judgemental people but they are in fact judgemental of those who are not on board with all these new ways, somehave been told they should just leave. Is this not the same attitude just in the oppisite form. You say COGOP used to not accept people becuase they were not like them yet this would be the same thing.

It is how you impact your cmmunity that will speak of your church.

[Joey]

It is how you impact your community that will speak of your church.

BAM!!!!

[RamboPreacher]

... I would add this though. The "of Prophecy" part of our name drives away people who otherwise know nothing about us. People immediately think we are a cult with a name like that, even knowing nothing about us. ...

I wonder if you have any stats to support this, or perhaps if it is a regional thing. I have no experience at all with anyone ever being dissuaded by the Of Prophecy part of the name of the church - none. I am not sure that I have ever even heard of anyone being dissuaded by it (except for mentions like this here on J2).

However, I know of many folks that are persuaded or dissuaded by the ministry to (or lack) them by the local church, whatever their name is.

It is how you impact your community that will speak of your church.

BAM!!!!

add my ditto.

[Gerald Creasy]

Since All women change their names when they really do become a bride I suggest:

Church of God of Pentecost

We can even keep our acronym.