Any Ron Paul supporters here in J2???

[turbotim]

is this what u are talking about eb

ron paul - america's hero ----- youtube video

[dolfan]

I don't think "Libertarian Christian" is an oxymoron at all. The kingdom of Christ is so different in kind and in quality from any notion of civil government, from even the most altruistic notions of "social contract" and from the most free market notions of enterprise, that they are incomparable. So, they can't really contradict in the sense of one versus the other. We are here, though, and we have to live in some sort of order with people who do not share our love for the kingdom -- or more true, we're here and we are simply looking for a way to have our decisions to follow Christ validated by political power. I reject that, personally. I believe, as the Founders did, that individual liberty is the highest and greatest good of any earthly society. I believe that idea is best stated in this very religious statement:

""We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights. . .", namely, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

So, it is not a matter of choosing between the two sets of values -- libertarianism or Christianity. We can be the latter with or without the former; China is a prime example of power gone berserk and determined to stomp out Christianity, yet it may be the single most populated nation on the planet in terms of the number of Christians in it. But, does that mean we should all desire for oppression to abound so that faith may much more abound?? God forbid.

The Founders understood that the best government is the least government. Over time, our leaders have understood that government equals the attainment of power, and that is the very antithesis of the kingdom of God, which seeks to give power and not hold it.

Any number of moral dangers are cited for the exercise of that power, and no doubt there are sincere leaders who believe that power so exercised against those dangers is good. After all, to repress evil conduct is to promote good conduct, right?

Well, no. Evil cannot be micromanaged from the top down. It evades control. That's partly what makes evil evil. It must be conquered in the living rooms, bedsides, dinner tables, rocking chairs, playrooms and Sunday school rooms of every family day by day, and ultimately in the private thoughts and intents of the hearts of every person by the moment. No policy can even approach it.

But, what policy does is create an illusion of control, and with it a very real exercise of power. That illusion by the populace, that control by the elites in power, are lethal when they're combined. And, we see that now. We've got more laws on the books, more people employed to enforce them and bring them to bear on us, than any time and any nation in the world, but we're still building new prisons and filling them up. Our schools are failing, incomes are falling in real dollars, and the culture is so twisted that a young lady who is quite possibly one of the worst mothers of all time has a gold album at #1 on the charts within a week after its release. In other words, we're broken, and we're not fixable.

What we are, however, is at a moment in time where we can at least contemplate what our forefathers intended for us to be above all: free. Ron Paul, for all his warts, has at least given this notion that civil government is supremely evil in all its growth and is to be reduced in the very scope of its being a glimpse by people who think it is actually a new idea. That has comic value if nothing else. It is not a novel idea, it is the very one -- above all -- on which our nation was founded.

[Pastor Gary]

At what point do you say I'll choose this guy for all his good and let him slide on his bad but all the while disregard all the good that Ron Paul offers just because we feel like he will not fight terror or might legalize prostitution?

Let's set aside prostitution for a second, since I don't think either of us is directly impacted by the existence (or non-existence) of prostitution.

So that leaves military resistance to the radical Islamists who want to kill us all or subject us to slavery to their system of government. The Ron Paul/Libertarian world view that suggests we simply withdraw to our borders... no, wait... they don't really believe in borders at all... so what is the problem? If borders don't matter, he shouldn't care if our troops are in Philadelphia or Fallujah -- all the same!

[JStephenConn]

I don't post here on Jude 2 often, but let me chime in and say that I am a wholehearted supporter of Dr. Ron Paul. In fact, he is the only presidential candidate to whom I have made a financial contribution in my 62 years.

Ron Paul is the most principled candidate running, with the possible exception of Mike Huckabee who would come a close second. However, Ron Paul has the most consistent record after 20 years in Congress. He is also a Christian and attends a Southern Baptist church in Texas.

I very honestly believe that Jesus was a libertarian too. Although He preached against sin, Jesus did not choose to legislate morality. God created the human race to be free moral agents. He allows us to make our own choices - although His word teaches the consequences of those choices.

I believe, with Ron Paul, that the purpose of goverment is NOT to legislate the way individuals should live their lives and protect us from ourselves, but to protect us from others who would do us harm.

[Full Quiver]

PG, you bring out my point exactly. From what I read of your post and the things I here from high profile political people and talk show hosts is that you'd be satisfied with a pro-abortion, adulterous, big government candidate who will increase the national debt, keep our borders open, allow the dollar to become second and third rate to other currencies as long as we go to war with terrorists in places like Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan.

There is no end in sight in Iraq. We are spending billions each month that we don't have. Most likely a strike and possibly a war with Iran is in the cards before the next president takes office which will cost even more money that we don't have. It is very likely that Iran's allies would enter such a conflict to protect their national interests in the region. China needs oil badly and I am sure they will fight for it if need be. Of course they could "call the loan" and then the US would just be bankrupt. Look at what is going on in Pakistan; they have nukes and those weapons could change hands in all this mess. The current administration has embraced over the past several years the very man that is causing this mess. This mess never seems to stop. We embraced Bin Laden at one time and used him for our benefits as we did Saddam then all the sudden they are our enemies. In my opinion while we were celebrating the notion that the Cold War was over and that Reagan single-handedly defeated the Soviets evil men all over the world were lining up to purchase the USSR's weapons on mass destruction and we allowed it.

We don't know what Ron Paul would do as President. Quite frankly I believe that most anyone would use military might to protect our nation when needed but he might not otherwise. His record proves that he would be Libertarian and mostly a Constitutionalist when it comes to running the government, taxing the people, and growing the economy. First you played the morality card and when that didn't fly you played the terrorism card. Just because there has not been " an attack" on US soil since 9/11/2001 doesn't mean we are not in trouble here at home. Bush has neglected the borders and only God knows who is here to cause us harm. Gas prices are most likely to sky-rocket and potentially cripple our economy here at the peak of the "shopping season" and the housing market is a joke. If we go into a recession who's fault will it be? Clinton got the blame for the 2001 recession I suppose the democratic nominees will get the blame for the next one.

Again I am not a Ron Paul supporter but I am trying to be fair and balanced. I do not think Rudy is the answer. I think most people are carried away with his charisma and forget the truth about him. Good grief, he cheated on his wife openly and paraded the new woman around town in her face. Real conservative!

[EagerBeaver]

JStephenConn, I agree wholeheartedly with your post.

The government which governs best, governs least. Paul is a breath of fresh air to a country that needs it desperately, and he is the only hope of saving my long lost faith in the Grand Old Party.

[Pastor Gary]

...as long as we go to war with terrorists in places like Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan.

Well, okey-dokey then. Let's withdraw from Iraq, leave Iran alone, and the nice people who hate us and want to convert the planet to Islam will just go away and leave us alone. Right.

We can fight them somewhere else, or we can bury millions in this country when they succeed in getting a dirty bomb to explode in L.A. or Atlanta... or during the Super Bowl or the Oscars.

Iraq is just one front in a global war that will not end until America gets the political will to do the difficult, admit we are fighting radical Islam, and wage the war that way.

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.…A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities ... but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.

(The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pp. 248-50. Winston Churchill)

[Full Quiver]

Where did I say withdraw, lay down, or do not fight? The people don't have to get the will to fight and win in Iraq, the Commander in Chief does. We are already at war so he needs to lead the fight and win. Arm Chair QB's can not be faulted if their favorite football team doesn't win and Arm Chair Presidents can't be blamed in the military doesn't win. The American people have been blamed for the fiasco in Vietnam and will be blamed for Iraq if the President doesn't do his job right and win this fight. Wonder why that is; why not blame the big cheese?

The best way to get a dirty bomb into the US is across the southern border. What has the current Commander in Chief done to prevent this possibility? You campaigned for him here at Jude 2 if I remember right. Will you feel bad for it if this scenario plays out due to his inexcusable policies concerning Mexico and the border between us and them?

[DeWayneTN]

I haven't always been a U2 fan but I really admire Bono's activism and he earned even more respect from me this week. He refused to nail the Bush administration to the wall over Iraq in a Rolling Stone interview (that was quickly shuffled off the front page), instead opting to point out the grave danger of Islamofascism:

I want to be very, very clear, however: I understand and agree with the analysis of the problem. There is an imminent threat. It manifested itself on 9/11. It's real and grave. It is as serious a threat as Stalinism and National Socialism were. Let's not pretend it isn't

[Pastor Gary]

The best way to get a dirty bomb into the US is across the southern border. What has the current Commander in Chief done to prevent this possibility? You campaigned for him here at Jude 2 if I remember right. Will you feel bad for it if this scenario plays out due to his inexcusable policies concerning Mexico and the border between us and them?

I voted for Bush -- what was the alternative? I don't recall ever endorsing or campaigning for ANY candidate. Ever. I will apologize if you can point out where I campaigned.

I discuss the pros and cons of various candidates as a way of working through my decisions. My views of the Iraq war are colored, no doubt, by the 10 men/women I pastor who have served in that war, and who tell me in no uncertain terms they are proud of what we are doing there, and feel it is vital to our future. I remember what it was like to return from Vietnam and feel that America had turned its back on us by making us retreat, and I can't do that to these brave soldiers.

I agree with you; if we are in it, win it.

[dolfan]

DeWayne, thanks for posting that. I was watching a tidbit or two of VH1 last night with top 80's songs, and U2 showed up in it quite often. Brought back my high school days. I can remember the then only Christian bookstore in town used to carry U2's concert movie (was it Beat the Drum Slowly or something like that??) in their rentals section. Anyway, not to say anything about how Bono or U2 is on matters of personal conduct, but the guy sure does put his money where his mouth is on poverty and hunger, and I remember reading somewhere else about Someone who made that a priority in everything He said, too. He's sold a few 'albums', too.

[DaJudge]

Where did I say withdraw, lay down, or do not fight? The people don't have to get the will to fight and win in Iraq, the Commander in Chief does. We are already at war so he needs to lead the fight and win. Arm Chair QB's can not be faulted if their favorite football team doesn't win and Arm Chair Presidents can't be blamed in the military doesn't win. The American people have been blamed for the fiasco in Vietnam and will be blamed for Iraq if the President doesn't do his job right and win this fight. Wonder why that is; why not blame the big cheese?

The best way to get a dirty bomb into the US is across the southern border. What has the current Commander in Chief done to prevent this possibility? You campaigned for him here at Jude 2 if I remember right. Will you feel bad for it if this scenario plays out due to his inexcusable policies concerning Mexico and the border between us and them?

I agree with you on the problems with the southern border. I've always disagreed with Bush's policy on that.

However, I seriously disagree with your implications that we are losing in Iraq. Even Steny Hoyer, the Democratic House Majority leader has admitted that the surge is working.

Has it taken a long time? Yes. Have big time mistake been made? Yes. Has it cost alot? Yes. Is it worth it? YES.

I'd much rather fight the radical islamofacists over there, than over here.

[DeWayneTN]

If I can continue the hijack for one more post, I'll share this story. Forgive me.

One of my friends spent a little time with Bono. When they met, Bono approached him and said something to the effect of, "I hear you're a fan of the president" and my friend said yes and Bono told him, "You'll appreciate this - I'll tell you what I liked when I met him. He came to me and said, 'What can we do to help out with AIDS in Africa?' and I said, 'Well, Mr. President, I don't know what your budget can allow or if money can redirected' and he interrupted me and said, 'I didn't ask you about how to pay for it. That's my problem. You tell me what we need to be doing'." Bono has since publicly credited Bush with doing more than he ever anticipated in the fight against AIDs in Africa.

[MacUser]

Dajudge/Dewayne..

Sheeeessshh!!! Remember the blackout is still in effect on good news from Iraq or Prez Bush. Keep it zipped.

[KBevangelist]

Ron Pual signs are popping up everywhere in our town .

I have not looked at his website or searched out his views yet.

It is going to be an interesting race none the less

KB