Political coup in TCOG?

[EagerBeaver]

I seriously hope that isn't true but I do wonder myself. It took me being kicked out. I don't know that I would have walked away. Right now I would probably be in another faction. Sadness.

Look at it thisway, there are some who have been turned out but they never learned, and started their own faction, so you're one up on them.

As for all of 'em, stupid is as stupid does.

[one love]

I seriously hope that isn't true but I do wonder myself. It took me being kicked out. I don't know that I would have walked away. Right now I would probably be in another faction. Sadness.

Look at it thisway, there are some who have been turned out but they never learned, and started their own faction, so you're one up on them.

As for all of 'em, stupid is as stupid does.

your words speak for itself.

[Full Quiver]

Ro 8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them (sheep) which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law (the 29) could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

[EagerBeaver]

your words speak for itself.

I'm sure you'll see me in the same heaven you strive so perfectly to be going to. As I said on Full Quiver's forum, be prepared to mess in your heavenly Moses-issued 24K gold Stay-Dries when you find out the very people your organization slanders and badmouths....have a mansion right next to yours on the streets of gold.

Up there it won't really matter though, so why does it have to down here on this earth? I never understood it.

[Who new]

John 3 has Jesus telling the woman at the well that God is a spirit and they that worship him must do so in spirit and truth. So, if anyone's up for something that matters; try that. It carries considerably less baggage than human organizational structures.

[darylscook]

My Lord friend do you really believe that?

My LORD what happened to we are all saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
(KJV)

Mt 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
(KJV)

Pastor Daryl

[one love]

your words speak for itself.

I'm sure you'll see me in the same heaven you strive so perfectly to be going to. As I said on Full Quiver's forum, be prepared to mess in your heavenly Moses-issued 24K gold Stay-Dries when you find out the very people your organization slanders and badmouths....have a mansion right next to yours on the streets of gold.

Up there it won't really matter though, so why does it have to down here on this earth? I never understood it.

I saw your post on UTR and your the one that seems to be bad mouthing. I havent heard any from TCOG bad mouth anyone on that site. But you do where ever you go. Tcog never said you were not going to heaven, to my knowledge they preach salvation just as you do. Repentance, regeneration, sanctification. etc... You can not say people are slanderous as you slander them. Uh did I say I am TCOG? All those that are saved are heaven bound and I know TCOG says the same. Well doctrine matters, truth matters, being Godly and full of the love of Christ matters. I love ya whether you are baptist, catholic, COGOP, COG, TCOG, COGIC and so on.. I do not feel that so many false and watered down doctrines will stand before the rapture I do believe God has the power to unite all his children in unity. Surely we are not less then animals.
"to gather all things in christ"

[one love]

My Lord friend do you really believe that?

My LORD what happened to we are all saved by faith in Jesus Christ.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
(KJV)

Mt 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
(KJV)

Pastor Daryl

I never took the LOrd's name in vain. That is stretching. Where is my beam, show me. When did say you had one? PLease show me that as well. I just think it is interesting the anger so many have agianst this organization. I do not see any of them on here slandering you all, yet there is no condemnation to even say they are demonic. Which of course would make Brother Billy Murray Demonic, he sure preached just as TCOG for most of his life. I love you all. Again Im on the outside here looking in. If these things were said about Bapist Brothers and sisters I would say the same. I think discussing differences are good But insults are unchrist like. If me saying "my LOrd Friend" Caused an offense I apologize and will refrain from using that phrase. I have never seen it as wrong but since you are pointing the finger I will Probablly not use it that way again. The last thing I ever want to do is cause any unecessary offences

[one love]

I seriously hope that isn't true but I do wonder myself. It took me being kicked out. I don't know that I would have walked away. Right now I would probably be in another faction. Sadness.

Look at it thisway, there are some who have been turned out but they never learned, and started their own faction, so you're one up on them.

As for all of 'em, stupid is as stupid does.

For all the COGOP saints that have been a part of this organization more then 20 years, are you stupid? Surely not. Cogop has done wonderful and exceptional works for our Lord and saviour, to refer to any of this faith that way is undermining. TCOG have done great works for Christ whether I or any other saints hold that exact doctrine. COG, AOG all the same for them as well. LUTHERANS [some sects.] will not pray with any other organizational people. So if you have a church sport leaugue and you want to have prayer together with the opposing team they will not pray with you. I feel that is horrible but that is there teaching and they are doing wonderful works for Christ. So my point being just because someone is different then you does not give any right to act hateful. Now to discus doctrine I do not budge for anyone but I do it with Love. I enjoy having dialogue with those who are of an opposite theological stand point, it is healthy to be able to do so. I never end it in a Bad spirit. If I say something that may have been offensive, I will apologize.

I know the history of COGOP and the "concerned" but I have to admire them for not wanting to lower the standard they hold as truth. Next many in the COGOP wanted change and many did not. SO in essence I see those who love the change have a bad taste for TCOG because they are a reminder of there past theology. Politics was well and alive in COGOP but that does not make them all bad. It should not make all TCOG bad either. There are many Holy ghost filled God fearing saints in both organizations. If you see them having problems pray for them. Discuss it but pray for them. Every organization from the time of the reformation period have had splits and reorganizations when these things happen prayer should be the tool in which we work by.

When you go to the same heaven as TCOG will you refer to them in this manner in front of the LORD? If I am going to be "fair and balanced" I must say there are many in TCOG and all of those fractions that have a bad attitude to other organizations. That does not make it a overall view of them all nor the doctrine they teach. COGOP and every other christian organization has those of the same manner. It is a bad spirit not a bad organization.
Thank you for allowing the multiple post

[DaJudge]

I just think it is interesting the anger so many have agianst this organization. I do not see any of them on here slandering you all, yet there is no condemnation to even say they are demonic.

Oh please spare us. Of course they don't come on Jude 2 and slander us. We'd eat them alive and they know it. They slander us behind our backs and have for 15 years. They've slandered good men like Billy Murray. They've told insane lies (remember them saying the HQ staff had built a pool behind HQ and were having co-ed pool parties there?) They've claimed that we are the whore of Babylon and they are the one true Bride. They say we are in apostasy. So PLEASE excuse us if we don't cry when their cult, which is built on lies and a bad spirit, falls apart due to deception, back stabbing, and duplicity.

[one love]

I just think it is interesting the anger so many have agianst this organization. I do not see any of them on here slandering you all, yet there is no condemnation to even say they are demonic.

Oh please spare us. Of course they don't come on Jude 2 and slander us. We'd eat them alive and they know it. They slander us behind our backs and have for 15 years. They've slandered good men like Billy Murray. They've told insane lies (remember them saying the HQ staff had built a pool behind HQ and were having co-ed pool parties there?) They've claimed that we are the whore of Babylon and they are the one true Bride. They say we are in apostasy. So PLEASE excuse us if we don't cry when their cult, which is built on lies and a bad spirit, falls apart due to deception, back stabbing, and duplicity.

Spare you? Naw I would rather not. Arrogance does not make it right. Now look at this from an outsider that knows plenty of what was said. Laying that aside you are doing the same. Was it right for anyone to slander you? NO. Niether is it right for you to respond the same under the unbrella that they did such and such. Not all did wrong. Brother pruitt walked side by side with Murray in HQ as did many others. When he changed his beliefs they could not stand under Biblical false hoods (in there insight, please understand the analogy)
You dont really think they were done wrong in that whole thing? If not you dont know as much as you appear. Pools in HQ rediculous. Yet that would be so innocent compared to first hand knowledge of other things. Again friend I have nothing against you or COGOP. I just think nobody has a green light to insult one or the other. I can debate you on all the wrongs but I dont want to go that route. As I said I have no axe to grind with COGOP. I get the assumption you feel they are not to smart, this is why they would not come here? Again where does that leave all those in COGOP that preached it all there lives except for maybe the last ten?
There were billboards in North Carolina slamming the "concerned" Yes they had a right to be concerned. What COGOP practiced and preached suddenly went under a major change with the aging of M.A. against the opposition of many, when it was supposed to be uninamous.
As far as this is going I feel the point I made is lost. That it is hypocritical to insult someone and say they did it first. Sounds so childish. I do not desire to upset anyone here and start a warfare on the events of the 70's,80,'s,90,s it is honestly not my desire. Sorry if I caused an offense, sure did not mean to. I can assure you that everyone can jump on me and I could hold my own, I know to much. I just would rather continue as friends If you do not see the point, I will let it rest.

curious is your opinion of A.J. and M.A. this bad as well? Honestly are they now the evil cult makers and all after them are now the forefathers per say?

[Pastor Gary]

Now look at this from an outsider that knows plenty of what was said.

By "outsider" do you mean you are not now, and never were, a member of xCOGx? Please define "outsider."

Brother pruitt walked side by side with Murray in HQ as did many others. When he changed his beliefs they could not stand under Biblical false hoods (in there insight, please understand the analogy)

Again, for clarity, which beliefs are you saying Murray changed? I know he never preached or taught the "One Fold" business and was clear about that in the selection process. To my knowledge, he never preached against wedding rings, nor did he put one on when it was deemed permissible. Which beliefs changed?

Pools in HQ rediculous.

And, yet, that was claimed, falsely.

Yet that would be so innocent compared to first hand knowledge of other things.

And here's the point where I, as owner of Jude2, call upon you to back those hints with facts. If you do, indeed, have first-hand knowledge of wrongs committed, I am certain you will state your real name and back those gossipy whispers with names, dates and facts that can be checked. That would certainly be more ethical than doing the Clintonesque "I know some things but I won't say..."

I just think nobody has a green light to insult one or the other. I can debate you on all the wrongs but I dont want to go that route.

Too late --- you already stepped in it by alleging wrongdoing.

Again where does that leave all those in COGOP that preached it all there lives except for maybe the last ten?

In my case, it makes me honoring the covenant I took to walk in the light to the best of my knowledge and ability; every time I see new light, I am obligated to walk in it, regardless of what I USED to believe or teach.

What COGOP practiced and preached suddenly went under a major change with the aging of M.A. against the opposition of many, when it was supposed to be uninamous.

Not unless you define "suddenly" as a snail's pace over two+ decades.

curious is your opinion of A.J. and M.A. this bad as well? Honestly are they now the evil cult makers and all after them are now the forefathers per say?

A.J. was a flamboyant, charismatic personality heavily influenced by Frank Sanford's Shiloh movement (See "Clear, Fair & Terrible") and M.A. was a nice man who allowed others to take the ball and run it in wrong directions.

[one love]

By "outsider" do you mean you are not now, and never were, a member of xCOGx? Please define "outsider

."

I was raised in COGOP.

Again, for clarity, which beliefs are you saying Murray changed? I know he never preached or taught the "One Fold" business and was clear about that in the selection process. To my knowledge, he never preached against wedding rings, nor did he put one on when it was deemed permissible. Which beliefs changed

Ok this is exactly how TCOG the cult teach even today


Today there are thousands of people throught the world who have been introduced to “the blood covenant” of Jesus having experienced heart circumcission. These people have been justified by his blood: many of them have been sanctified; thousands have been baptized with the Holy ghost. They are true children of Abraham, members of the family of God. But God has something that will unite his children into one nation, a holy nation ruled by God. It is a covenant to obey the whole word of God. It is not to replace the “blood covenant” but is in addition to it. It is to unify God’s scattered children. While the blood is absolutely essential, the blood will not bring us into the unity of the faith. It will not unite and make us perfect in one. But the word will!
WWM 12-3-77 Billy Murray

We have kept the message of Christ and his church shut up into ourselves lo ng enough. We must learn to break out of our little close-knit groups and make friends of those who heretofore have remained strangers to us….Without a surrender of the doctrine of holiness and seperation from the world, the church must refuse to live unto itself in tension between the command to come out from the world and go out into the world. Our love for God and others wil enable us to do both.
WWM Billy Murray 10-24-70

We believe there will come a time prior to the millennium when the perfection of God’s will will be accomplished in, or within, earth among a specific number of people who will comprise the glorious church of God. Among this people who will constitute a chosen bride for the son of God, He will observe his will being done in earth even as it is in heaven
WWM Billy Murray 10-21-78

…There have been various interpretations as to what we were actually covenanting with and to at that time, but if I understand it correctly, this was not walking in the light of your individual interpretations of what the Bible says, but walking in the light of the assembly- walking in the light of the church of God, which light we have today-which light is designated as “thy light” which is to come.

Wwm 2-14-76 Billy Murray


Thank God for those in the past who chose to rectify errors and stand for the truth even when it meant a loss of friends and los of favor with the majority of the people. This was the caliber of the people to whom God gave a banner in the assembly of 1933

WWM 2-3-79 Billy Murray

(note this is what TCOG did)

And, yet, that was claimed, falsely.

No this was true I was there No Im just joking who ever said such a thing is just silly

And here's the point where I, as owner of Jude2, call upon you to back those hints with facts. If you do, indeed, have first-hand knowledge of wrongs committed, I am certain you will state your real name and back those gossipy whispers with names, dates and facts that can be checked. That would certainly be more ethical than doing the Clintonesque "I know some things but I won't say..."

Im not that kind of person. If you think "hints" implied I desired to insult anyone I apologize. I feel insulting anyone or tearing down the reputation is wrong. Again the only insulting im seeing is some here against TCOG. I stepped in that direction with out meaning to I do ask for you to humbly forgive me.

In my case, it makes me honoring the covenant I took to walk in the light to the best of my knowledge and ability; every time I see new light, I am obligated to walk in it, regardless of what I USED to believe or teach.

That is fine with me. But according to your former G.O. he did not feel that way. So everyhting you feel about TCOG you must apply to yourself and the leaders even if they changed there belief. For those that worked with Murray, M.A. Tomlinson, Griffin, Hawkins, Pruitt etc know exactly what they believed and taught
Again I have no axe to grind against COGOP. If it would have been Baptist people that were called a cult or demonic I would respond the same.
Thank you May the Lord Bless ya!

[dbserv]

Again, for clarity, which beliefs are you saying Murray changed? I know he never preached or taught the "One Fold" business and was clear about that in the selection process.

Ok this is exactly how TCOG the cult teach even today

Well, perhaps you might want to check your sources. I don't know who you've been talking to, but the One Fold is EXACTLY what TCOG teaches and preaches (as most of COGOP used to). I left in 1981 and turned in my minister's license because I could no longer preach this doctrine (along with a couple of others).

[one love]

Again, for clarity, which beliefs are you saying Murray changed? I know he never preached or taught the "One Fold" business and was clear about that in the selection process.

Ok this is exactly how TCOG the cult teach even today

Well, perhaps you might want to check your sources. I don't know who you've been talking to, but the One Fold is EXACTLY what TCOG teaches and preaches (as most of COGOP used to). I left in 1981 and turned in my minister's license because I could no longer preach this doctrine (along with a couple of others).

I know they preach this way. I think you misunderstood what I was saying. It was said Brother Billy Murray did not believe in the "One Fold" doctrine. This is not true. SO I posted just a few of the hundreds of qoutes I could post to prove otherwise with Him or any other. When I said TCOG teaches it this way it was in reference to Murrays old comments I posted. Yes they do still preach "exclusivity"