Conservative COGOP churches

[Faith rider]

I'm waiting for you to answer my questions I ask in the above post.

[one love]

I'm waiting for you to answer my questions I ask in the above post.

Sorry I missed responding to that

Well in VA in the past 2-3 years

Ronoake VA
Marion VA
farmville

Now there are more members that went to the existing churches in other areas. I can address this in more detail later if you would like, got to run

[Pastor Bill]

There are still some individual churches, and I believe there are some areas that are more conservative (Ohio is from what I heard)

We have one close to us, and there are some family ties with some of our members, their pastor stepped down this year, so that may mean some changes, as I don't know of too many pastors that would fit to the old ways that closely, but I think they are more of the exception than the rule now.

[stevenson]

There are still some individual churches, and I believe there are some areas that are more conservative (Ohio is from what I heard)

Yes, Ohio is more conservative than you would expect. It's probably split about 50/50 with the Ohio churches. But then again our SO is very conservative. Now, don't take that as a knock on him. Although I disagree with his conservative views, I admire the way he has stuck to his guns. He could have left during the Zion Assembly split but chose to stay and I have to admire him for that.

I wish more people would have put their personal feelings on a back burner and would have stayed for the greater cause of growing the church for Christ.

[one love]

There are still some individual churches, and I believe there are some areas that are more conservative (Ohio is from what I heard)

Yes, Ohio is more conservative than you would expect. It's probably split about 50/50 with the Ohio churches. But then again our SO is very conservative. Now, don't take that as a knock on him. Although I disagree with his conservative views, I admire the way he has stuck to his guns. He could have left during the Zion Assembly split but chose to stay and I have to admire him for that.

I wish more people would have put their personal feelings on a back burner and would have stayed for the greater cause of growing the church for Christ.

Stevenson,
Just a question. If the COGOP started teaching things that were contrary to things you held to be as truth would you go along with it? Knowing that it had no intentions of changing?

[stevenson]

Stevenson,
Just a question. If the COGOP started teaching things that were contrary to things you held to be as truth would you go along with it? Knowing that it had no intentions of changing?

Yes, if it were things that I held as truth. Cause I can be wrong! But if it's contrary to the Word of God than no. I think that for anyone to think they understand and "know all" is prideful on their part. I don't say that I embrace the whole new "Marriage Document" that the COGOP has brought forth. I agree with most of it though. But is it worth dividing ourselves over? No! I think there's a greater need to stand together and grow the Kingdom of God.

[Chosen_Generation]

Hey Steveson,
does Sis.Mary Goins still pastor Carrothers?

[Pastor Gary]

Stevenson,
Just a question. If the COGOP started teaching things that were contrary to things you held to be as truth would you go along with it? Knowing that it had no intentions of changing?

I am not Stevenson, but may I cut in and respond?

Some of us -- MANY of us -- were in exactly the situation you described for decades. The COGOP taught things we felt were contrary to truth, and we went along with it, pretty discouraged and largely convinced there was no hope that those positions would ever be corrected.

That was my situation for the better part of 25 years! I thought we had absolutely NO spiritual leg to stand on teaching that it was sin to wrap a piece of precious metal, heaven's pavement, around a finger. I fervently believed that we had the best of intentions, but wrong application of our understanding of divorce and remarriage. I was told by people who (supposedly) had it all figured out that neither of those two things would EVER change, and, yet, I stayed and submitted, and did my best to not teach anything that would be construed as rebellion.

I was also convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was completely bogus for us or anyone else to teach the whole exclusive church doctrine, and that God was SOOO much bigger and greater than that... but I stayed, and now I can count on two hands the people in COGOP I know who believe in exclusivity.

So, as far as loyalty is concerned, I'll match toe-to-toe with Pruitt, Carter, Smith, Phillips or anyone else. I stayed a quarter century with doctrines being promoted that I didn't endorse: most of them left quickly when the organization taught different than their personal understanding.

[one love]

Stevenson,
Just a question. If the COGOP started teaching things that were contrary to things you held to be as truth would you go along with it? Knowing that it had no intentions of changing?

I am not Stevenson, but may I cut in and respond?

Some of us -- MANY of us -- were in exactly the situation you described for decades. The COGOP taught things we felt were contrary to truth, and we went along with it, pretty discouraged and largely convinced there was no hope that those positions would ever be corrected.

That was my situation for the better part of 25 years! I thought we had absolutely NO spiritual leg to stand on teaching that it was sin to wrap a piece of precious metal, heaven's pavement, around a finger. I fervently believed that we had the best of intentions, but wrong application of our understanding of divorce and remarriage. I was told by people who (supposedly) had it all figured out that neither of those two things would EVER change, and, yet, I stayed and submitted, and did my best to not teach anything that would be construed as rebellion.

I was also convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was completely bogus for us or anyone else to teach the whole exclusive church doctrine, and that God was SOOO much bigger and greater than that... but I stayed, and now I can count on two hands the people in COGOP I know who believe in exclusivity.

So, as far as loyalty is concerned, I'll match toe-to-toe with Pruitt, Carter, Smith, Phillips or anyone else. I stayed a quarter century with doctrines being promoted that I didn't endorse: most of them left quickly when the organization taught different than their personal understanding.

PLease UNderstand I do not mean this to be anyway as a reference to that situation. I find it hard to believe stevenson how you can say that. If you believed things to be SIN and felt the LORD leading you elsewhere you would not leave? Well how did you ever get into cogop? Why not stay at AOG?

Pastor Gary you are in a sense backing my point. All the way you followed your convictions correct? I admire that. I may not agree on the theological standpoint but we are supposed to stand against false doctrine. Please understand Im using this in a different view based on Stevenson's remark. I am Not trying to get into the COGOP/TCOG/COG/ZACOG/Jerasulem acres......etc
Just this basis if your church taught things and passed it as teachings that you percieved to be sin how could you promote it. Now I would not have left COGOP either had I felt that the LORD did not do the work.
Stevenson what if (again this is not a comparision to anything about cogop or do I think this would happen) COGOP passed that homosexuals were to be used as members/ministry/ and eligible for salvation in this state. Would you stay????????

[stevenson]

I think we have a clearer understanding of the scriptures on homosexuality than we do divorce and remarriage. Would I leave? Only if God instructed me to. You may say, why would God want you in an organization that allows homosexuality, but then again, why did God want a prophet to marry a prostitute? Who am I to question God?

I think to many people got upset and left because the church no longer taught what they believed. but if the church didn't strive for better understanding, we would not have speaking in tounges today. In fact we wouldn't have any of th Protestant bodies if someone wouldn't have dug deeper into scripture.

Pastor Gary, very good point and God bless all of you who stayed in the COGOP during those years. I on the other hand, partially because I was very spiritually immature at the time, felt if I couldn't live up to the 29 prominent teachings I might as well give up. And I did for a long time. Even when I came back to Christ, I joined the COG cuz COGOP was still too legalistic. I am so glad that we are where we are today.

[paul]

[ What if COGOP passed that homosexuals were to be used as members/ministry/ and eligible for salvation in this state. Would you stay????????

I chaned your quote to add "What if ", so no one mis interprets the statement.

The latter part of your statement troubles me. you use the word eligible. Anyone no matter the sin in their life is eligible for salvation even in the state they are in. It is only through salvation that one can be freed from that state or any state of sin.

[MrDanger]

Stevenson,
Just a question. If the COGOP started teaching things that were contrary to things you held to be as truth would you go along with it? Knowing that it had no intentions of changing?

Many of us stayed for many years and many believed that COGOP would never change. When you saw people condemned to hell for wearing jewelry (by people wearing watches, pocket watches, broaches, etc.) it was pretty hard to swallow. However, rather than split off and start my own thing, I loved and continued to work with people that I disagreed with.

[Jennifer Smith]

Stevenson,
Just a question. If the COGOP started teaching things that were contrary to things you held to be as truth would you go along with it? Knowing that it had no intentions of changing?

I am not Stevenson, but may I cut in and respond?

Some of us -- MANY of us -- were in exactly the situation you described for decades. The COGOP taught things we felt were contrary to truth, and we went along with it, pretty discouraged and largely convinced there was no hope that those positions would ever be corrected.

That was my situation for the better part of 25 years! I thought we had absolutely NO spiritual leg to stand on teaching that it was sin to wrap a piece of precious metal, heaven's pavement, around a finger. I fervently believed that we had the best of intentions, but wrong application of our understanding of divorce and remarriage. I was told by people who (supposedly) had it all figured out that neither of those two things would EVER change, and, yet, I stayed and submitted, and did my best to not teach anything that would be construed as rebellion.

I was also convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was completely bogus for us or anyone else to teach the whole exclusive church doctrine, and that God was SOOO much bigger and greater than that... but I stayed, and now I can count on two hands the people in COGOP I know who believe in exclusivity.

So, as far as loyalty is concerned, I'll match toe-to-toe with Pruitt, Carter, Smith, Phillips or anyone else. I stayed a quarter century with doctrines being promoted that I didn't endorse: most of them left quickly when the organization taught different than their personal understanding.

Pastor Gary, and Mr. Danger, I had no idea you had been through all of that.. sometimes, after being in CoGoP only a short time, I'm ready to leave. I guess I need to pray for more perseverance.

..but the statement that was quoted about coming out of the A/G, that bugs me. I prefer to leave the weird stuff (that comment included) in the past.

There is still so much in CoGoP we need to allow the LORD to work on. Any last vestiges of pride, any religious spirit has got to go. We do not earn our way to Heaven, it is only by the grace of God that we are called His people. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to change us and to convict us of sin and it begins with the heart.
I still see big structural problems in our churches and I still see so many in CoGoP churches who are reluctant to come to an altar call whether it be because of pride or fear of being judged.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to be negative, because God has done so much, and I am thankful for the people who have allowed themselves to be molded and changed. But I still see a lot of room for growth and improvement.

[one love]

I think we have a clearer understanding of the scriptures on homosexuality than we do divorce and remarriage. Would I leave? Only if God instructed me to. You may say, why would God want you in an organization that allows homosexuality, but then again, why did God want a prophet to marry a prostitute? Who am I to question God?

I think to many people got upset and left because the church no longer taught what they believed. but if the church didn't strive for better understanding, we would not have speaking in tounges today. In fact we wouldn't have any of th Protestant bodies if someone wouldn't have dug deeper into scripture.

Pastor Gary, very good point and God bless all of you who stayed in the COGOP during those years. I on the other hand, partially because I was very spiritually immature at the time, felt if I couldn't live up to the 29 prominent teachings I might as well give up. And I did for a long time. Even when I came back to Christ, I joined the COG cuz COGOP was still too legalistic. I am so glad that we are where we are today.

so you could not go because the 29 teachings were to hard but you would be able to stay with homosexuality and sin???????

[Pastor Gary]

...but you would be able to stay with homosexuality and sin???????

Just wondering: I keep hearing references to acceptance of homosexuality, almost always from those in groups who have separated from COGOP. Who is promoting the idea, or planting the smear, that somehow because COGOP allows rings and remarried people that inevitably leads to gay ministers?