My perspective

[one love]

Rambo you are an awesome person I appreciate you and your insight!!!
May God Bless you

Response: Just don't come to his church to be told how your awesome insight has caused you such error that you must now change or hit the bricks. In love of course.

I would never tell anyone to change or hit the bricks. These are erroneous statements. Does it bother you that I like rambo so you mustprove that Im somehow bad?
Hey the onetruejude2 what and idea I think I will

[RamboPreacher]

Rambo you are an awesome person I appreciate you and your insight!!!
May God Bless you

Response: Just don't come to his church to be told how your awesome insight has caused you such error that you must now change or hit the bricks. In love of course.

actually, I believe (if I am not mistaken), that I could attend his church with no problems at all. I just couldn't be a "member", let alone participate in any ministering because I am a "sinner" (my salvation may or may not be at question based on who is asked, though).

in reality, though, God has not called me there, so it won't happen in any case. If God DID call me there, then I would be obedient and attend faithfully.

[scooter]

I would never tell anyone to change or hit the bricks. These are erroneous statements. Does it bother you that I like rambo so you mustprove that Im somehow bad?
:

Response: Well, okay, but if you think it in your heart....

[one love]

I would never tell anyone to change or hit the bricks. These are erroneous statements. Does it bother you that I like rambo so you mustprove that Im somehow bad?
:

Response: Well, okay, but if you think it in your heart....

It is not what I think it is what you are saying. I know you get humor by this somehow but the double standard is if anyone made such a statement the other direction it would not be funny. Keep the insults coming I will just pray for ya.
I have people that attend often that have been married twice , wear rings and many other things. They actually enjoy coming. They drive an hour to get there when they can.

[scooter]

I would never tell anyone to change or hit the bricks. These are erroneous statements. Does it bother you that I like rambo so you mustprove that Im somehow bad?
:

Response: Well, okay, but if you think it in your heart....

It is not what I think it is what you are saying. I know you get humor by this somehow but the double standard is if anyone made such a statement the other direction it would not be funny. Keep the insults coming I will just pray for ya.
I have people that attend often that have been married twice , wear rings and many other things. They actually enjoy coming. They drive an hour to get there when they can.

Response: Okay. No insults here. They come but have you told them how it really is???????

The type of "The church" to which you ascribe makes its boast of perfection by the standard it upholds by the disfellowshiping the less than desirable and refusing membership to others. There should be nothing which you might find insulting in that.

It has been and is a badge of honor for TCoggers everwhere throught their/our history. Why deceive yourself into thinking your's is somehow different.

Why not just be upfront with your church's belief system than hide behind the nobody likes me card. I think I like you but your church stinks to high heaven. As does its treatment of people.

Your church habitually calls unclean what God could have cleaned and all the time imagines you are just doing the Lords work.

I know the sideways look of "I'm sorry you don't know what I know". What compassion.

You can go back and forth and attempt to imagine things different but bottom line is unless God has you in the Tcog as a vessel of organizational change you're just as guilty as your church.

I'll give you a bit of latitude, cause I like you.

BTW some of my best friends are black.

[dalebert]

I want going to jump in but i just had too.......

I have people that attend often that have been married twice , wear rings and many other things. They actually enjoy coming. They drive an hour to get there when they can.

Well thats good until they would want to join "the Church" then what would you tell them? Is ok to receive their money even as they are not a member and living in an adulterous state of double marriage and God forbid, wearing "rings and many others things"? What will you tell "those people" when they want to join or serve in that ministry after they have been driving for months to come to your church! I already know what you will say. And my question to you is why would you let them drive an hour each Sunday to come to your church while all along you know that if they would want to join the church or work in that ministry, your church will not allow it! Why? I just don't understand! Why don't you tell them now what is expected of them and how your church believes?

[scooter]

Well thats good until they would want to join "the Church" then what would you tell them? Is ok to receive their money even as they are not a member and living in an adulterous state of double marriage and God forbid, wearing "rings and many others things"? What will you tell "those people" when they want to join or serve in that ministry after they have been driving for months to come to your church! I already know what you will say. And my question to you is why would you let them drive an hour each Sunday to come to your church while all along you know that if they would want to join the church or work in that ministry, your church will not allow it! Why? I just don't understand! Why don't you tell them now what is expected of them and how your church believes?

Response: Exactly! It's almost like the perfect deception.

[one love]

I would never tell anyone to change or hit the bricks. These are erroneous statements. Does it bother you that I like rambo so you mustprove that Im somehow bad?
:

Response: Well, okay, but if you think it in your heart....

It is not what I think it is what you are saying. I know you get humor by this somehow but the double standard is if anyone made such a statement the other direction it would not be funny. Keep the insults coming I will just pray for ya.
I have people that attend often that have been married twice , wear rings and many other things. They actually enjoy coming. They drive an hour to get there when they can.

Response: Okay. No insults here. They come but have you told them how it really is???????

The type of "The church" to which you ascribe makes its boast of perfection by the standard it upholds by the disfellowshiping the less than desirable and refusing membership to others. There should be nothing which you might find insulting in that.

It has been and is a badge of honor for TCoggers everwhere throught their/our history. Why deceive yourself into thinking your's is somehow different.

Why not just be upfront with your church's belief system than hide behind the nobody likes me card. I think I like you but your church stinks to high heaven. As does its treatment of people.

Your church habitually calls unclean what God could have cleaned and all the time imagines you are just doing the Lords work.

I know the sideways look of "I'm sorry you don't know what I know". What compassion.

You can go back and forth and attempt to imagine things different but bottom line is unless God has you in the Tcog as a vessel of organizational change you're just as guilty as your church.

I'll give you a bit of latitude, cause I like you.

BTW some of my best friends are black.

Wow what wisdom you have. Brother you are so incorrect. If you feel the need to point out negative things continually enjoy. I do not hide behind "nobody likes me", again assumptions bring nothing but aggrivation. It is an obsrervation by what is being said. You are proving my point that Because of what church I belong to I will continue to get this elevated garbage. Keep fooling yourself all day but what is the purpose of it. Have I stated faults and things I disagree with in cogop over and over NO. Why would I. Just keep it going if you only want people here that agree fine I will leave. I am not judgemental PG should be able to say that but who knows.


UTR me and Danny page disagree a lot. SOmetimes we agree. We have been in heated debates but he never chooses to bash me according to my church. He and his wife are good friends of mine. There are people of many churchs there. But for some reason I thought I could come here and find new friends to discuss things. Not go over old issues that have grown tiring to me. I was told this is what would happen. I came anyway and it was all good until it was said I was TCOG then the talks questions started and the rest goes from there. Say what you want you know nothing about me. Be bold as you would like tough guy it is amusing
May God Bless you,

[scooter]

Be bold as you would like tough guy it is amusing
May God Bless you,

Response: Oh no name calling here...

If you were catholic would you expect not to discuss Mary?

You are only hiding obvious facts and avoiding that which the majority of us know. I'm sure you'll find enough people who will play pattie cake with you here to make your time worth while.

Why not come out of the closet and tell us about those ring wearing people who attend your church?

Can they be members?

If so I apologize and return you to your regularly scheduled pattie cake session.

If not, quit insulting us with your great understanding.

[RamboPreacher]

Well thats good until they would want to join "the Church" then what would you tell them? Is ok to receive their money even as they are not a member and living in an adulterous state of double marriage and God forbid, wearing "rings and many others things"? What will you tell "those people" when they want to join or serve in that ministry after they have been driving for months to come to your church! I already know what you will say. And my question to you is why would you let them drive an hour each Sunday to come to your church while all along you know that if they would want to join the church or work in that ministry, your church will not allow it! Why? I just don't understand! Why don't you tell them now what is expected of them and how your church believes?

Response: Exactly! It's almost like the perfect deception.

While I completely agree with what you guys are saying; there is another view to consider.

I will give a local example. we have a few families in our church that know full well about (previous) membership requirements, and still remained active and supportive of the local church. They choose NOT to want to be members of the church, even now with the approved recommendations.

I have talked with these people and they are just not interested in the membership issue. they want to attend church, and participate and be as active as they want to be. The difference, I THINK between that and what I understand to be at a (generically speaking) TCOG, is that those members would not be allowed to participate in any ministry activities. where that line is drawn, I couldn't guess. But if they don't allow ordination (as COGOP doesn't), wold they allow a non-member to be the host or hostess or even a server for a church-sponsored fellowship meal/party?

People have different views of what it is to be "ministering". While I fully believe that the server at a church-meal is ministering (whether they are members or not) - I can't say how that is delineated in TCOG. If, as I, they consider it ministering, then they would be in a double standard and hypocritical if they let non-members serve at said example function.

there are just too many variables to make broad brush strokes. and there are too many variables in "what-if's" to present every example.

I gave that example, because, in our case, we have a family that attends regularly, gives often and regularly, and are NOT members, and do not intend on being members, yet the woman is very active in the ministry, by coordinating our special events, meals, and fellowships. She was an integral part in coordinating the effort to get our kitchen remodeled. They couldn't vote in our business meeting, but they attend them. No hard feelings, that is just what they choose.

[scooter]

I will give a local example. we have a few families in our church that know full well about (previous) membership requirements, and still remained active and supportive of the local church. They choose NOT to want to be members of the church, even now with the approved recommendations.

I have talked with these people and they are just not interested in the membership issue. they want to attend church, and participate and be as active as they want to be. The difference, I THINK between that and what I understand to be at a (generically speaking) TCOG, is that those members would not be allowed to participate in any ministry activities. where that line is drawn, I couldn't guess. But if they don't allow ordination (as COGOP doesn't), wold they allow a non-member to be the host or hostess or even a server for a church-sponsored fellowship meal/party?

People have different views of what it is to be "ministering". While I fully believe that the server at a church-meal is ministering (whether they are members or not) - I can't say how that is delineated in TCOG. If, as I, they consider it ministering, then they would be in a double standard and hypocritical if they let non-members serve at said example function.

there are just too many variables to make broad brush strokes. and there are too many variables in "what-if's" to present every example.

I gave that example, because, in our case, we have a family that attends regularly, gives often and regularly, and are NOT members, and do not intend on being members, yet the woman is very active in the ministry, by coordinating our special events, meals, and fellowships. She was an integral part in coordinating the effort to get our kitchen remodeled. They couldn't vote in our business meeting, but they attend them. No hard feelings, that is just what they choose.

Response: Great point. However does it negate the fundamentally flawed system and somehow release them from responsibility?

[one love]

Be bold as you would like tough guy it is amusing
May God Bless you,

Response: Oh no name calling here...

If you were catholic would you expect not to discuss Mary?

You are only hiding obvious facts and avoiding that which the majority of us know. I'm sure you'll find enough people who will play pattie cake with you here to make your time worth while.

Why not come out of the closet and tell us about those ring wearing people who attend your church?

Can they be members?

If so I apologize and return you to your regularly scheduled pattie cake session.

If not, quit insulting us with your great understanding.

COme out the closet? I have made no statement that I do not believe in strict bible living. I have not hid that. No they could not be members but at least we are up front with it. The only pattie caking is you with those who agree with you. It troubles you that someone still holds to the former perspective of Divorce, jewelry, government etc. Why it does I do not know. I was told earlier here not to bring up things that could be offensive (even know I never did) I have tried not to. I enjoy talking all kinds of bible. I dont want to everyday discuss why we left the church of god of prophecy. Why, is there something you dont know? You say you know how we teach , well good let it go. Why You cant and feel the need to bash me for still practicing this. I believe so I will teach it. I feel sorry for those who did not beleive it but taught it anyway.
You have an anger problem with us. There is no love in your responses. I have been overly careful in not saying things to cause an offense to these issues. Why because people were hurt. MANY IN TCOG WERE REALLY HURT as well. I could list so many things that you are clueless about but why to argue ? no. I have shown restraint, so you call it pattie caking, I call it wisdom. If im truly your brohter in CHrist you would not be so disrespectful. Asking is there still conservative cogop still around and then when one answers, just becasue it may shock some does not give you the liberty to tear them down. If you disagree with TCOG that is just fine with me. Move on to the next topic. I didnt come to debate this. If you are implying that If im here I must go round after round over this senseless childish insults well then I will go. If we were discussing them reasonablly it would be fine. Me and stevenson have went into this in depth on UTR but the difference is he shows respect!!!! He can joke but still show respect as I do him. You dont. You are not desiring information you desire to beat a drum that shows your spirit. I have nothing against cogop never had. I did not agree with the route they went so Im not there. You and others do so you are there. Thats fine with me. I love those in cogop this why I choose to not debate these issues because it drags out to blatant attacks and insults. Im all for debate but if it loses any edifying purpose I will no longer be a part. If you think Im scared of something here that is just funny friend. You surely dont know where I come from. I just want to maintain a good loving christ like spirit.
SO move on, find another topic. Does it always have to be about tcog. Does you theological stanpoint go any further?

I WILL SAY FOR THE LAST TIME I APOLOGIZE IF I HAVE CAUSED ANY OFFENSE.I also stand strongly for the teachings of tcog and never hide behind them.
BUt this is so tiring and old. May God bless you.
I do appreciate the kind spirit others have shown though they disagree with us, may God continue to bless you in all you do for him. Paul I will be praying the work you do will continue to grow and prosper
Rambo you are in my prayers as well.

[one love]

I want going to jump in but i just had too.......

I have people that attend often that have been married twice , wear rings and many other things. They actually enjoy coming. They drive an hour to get there when they can.

Well thats good until they would want to join "the Church" then what would you tell them? Is ok to receive their money even as they are not a member and living in an adulterous state of double marriage and God forbid, wearing "rings and many others things"? What will you tell "those people" when they want to join or serve in that ministry after they have been driving for months to come to your church! I already know what you will say. And my question to you is why would you let them drive an hour each Sunday to come to your church while all along you know that if they would want to join the church or work in that ministry, your church will not allow it! Why? I just don't understand! Why don't you tell them now what is expected of them and how your church believes?

They know exactly how we believe. Would you not recieve any offering from a sinner? BTW im not saying if you wear jewelry you are not saved by any means.
A sinner cant be a member of cogop correct? would you take there money. So that is ok? Again there are still things that hinder one from ebing a member of cogop correct would you still take there offerings. Now some can be members and do many things but cant preach. I feel if they can be a member they can be a part of everything. So if you think we are wrong for that then you yoursefl take no offering from anyone who can not be a member and take none from sinners. Silly correct?

[scooter]

COme out the closet? I have made no statement that I do not believe in strict bible living. I have not hid that. No they could not be members but at least we are up front with it. The only pattie caking is you with those who agree with you. It troubles you that someone still holds to the former perspective of Divorce, jewelry, government etc. Why it does I do not know. I was told earlier here not to bring up things that could be offensive (even know I never did) I have tried not to. I enjoy talking all kinds of bible. I dont want to everyday discuss why we left the church of god of prophecy. Why, is there something you dont know? You say you know how we teach , well good let it go. Why You cant and feel the need to bash me for still practicing this. I believe so I will teach it. I feel sorry for those who did not beleive it but taught it anyway.
You have an anger problem with us. There is no love in your responses. I have been overly careful in not saying things to cause an offense to these issues. Why because people were hurt. MANY IN TCOG WERE REALLY HURT as well. I could list so many things that you are clueless about but why to argue ? no. I have shown restraint, so you call it pattie caking, I call it wisdom. If im truly your brohter in CHrist you would not be so disrespectful. Asking is there still conservative cogop still around and then when one answers, just becasue it may shock some does not give you the liberty to tear them down. If you disagree with TCOG that is just fine with me. Move on to the next topic. I didnt come to debate this. If you are implying that If im here I must go round after round over this senseless childish insults well then I will go. If we were discussing them reasonablly it would be fine. Me and stevenson have went into this in depth on UTR but the difference is he shows respect!!!! He can joke but still show respect as I do him. You dont. You are not desiring information you desire to beat a drum that shows your spirit. I have nothing against cogop never had. I did not agree with the route they went so Im not there. You and others do so you are there. Thats fine with me. I love those in cogop this why I choose to not debate these issues because it drags out to blatant attacks and insults. Im all for debate but if it loses any edifying purpose I will no longer be a part. If you think Im scared of something here that is just funny friend. You surely dont know where I come from. I just want to maintain a good loving christ like spirit.
SO move on, find another topic. Does it always have to be about tcog. Does you theological stanpoint go any further?

I WILL SAY FOR THE LAST TIME I APOLOGIZE IF I HAVE CAUSED ANY OFFENSE.I also stand strongly for the teachings of tcog and never hide behind them.
BUt this is so tiring and old. May God bless you.

Response: Paragraphs are a wonderful thing. I think I post on numerous topics and that this is the first time in your 166 post that I said anything about it.

I don't have a problem with anger. I haven't called you names. Your meek spirit has a problem with the exposing of who the Tcog really is in public. That is why you see me as "tough guy" "childish" "angry" full of "insults" and "attacks".

I struggle against it for the people who your organization continues to hurt. Having been formerly duped by some of the same false doctrine I find myself zealous of provoking you to better behavior. Some people imagine the chasm/schism doesn't exist and continue to fluff you in sidestepping conversation. It's like trying to imagine that brother brother-in-law isn't beating your sister at Christmas dinner.

It may work for some. Doesn't work for me. Attack anything I believe. If it is worthy it will stand. I desire to be provoked in my thought and theology. I don't desire people to ignore the obvious when it comes to my walk.

Consider if you will your mentioned friends, I love them, not even truly knowing them. The Tcog chewed them up and spit them out like the machine that it is. Or better yet our own Po Bro. who pastored, just as you, but God moved on in no uncertain terms as was predicted to greener pastures.

I'm not angry but rather just don't mince words so you will feel all cozy while continuing in bloody behavior.

I can enage on differing levels as is needful.

No unnecessary offense intended.

[one love]

COme out the closet? I have made no statement that I do not believe in strict bible living. I have not hid that. No they could not be members but at least we are up front with it. The only pattie caking is you with those who agree with you. It troubles you that someone still holds to the former perspective of Divorce, jewelry, government etc. Why it does I do not know. I was told earlier here not to bring up things that could be offensive (even know I never did) I have tried not to. I enjoy talking all kinds of bible. I dont want to everyday discuss why we left the church of god of prophecy. Why, is there something you dont know? You say you know how we teach , well good let it go. Why You cant and feel the need to bash me for still practicing this. I believe so I will teach it. I feel sorry for those who did not beleive it but taught it anyway.
You have an anger problem with us. There is no love in your responses. I have been overly careful in not saying things to cause an offense to these issues. Why because people were hurt. MANY IN TCOG WERE REALLY HURT as well. I could list so many things that you are clueless about but why to argue ? no. I have shown restraint, so you call it pattie caking, I call it wisdom. If im truly your brohter in CHrist you would not be so disrespectful. Asking is there still conservative cogop still around and then when one answers, just becasue it may shock some does not give you the liberty to tear them down. If you disagree with TCOG that is just fine with me. Move on to the next topic. I didnt come to debate this. If you are implying that If im here I must go round after round over this senseless childish insults well then I will go. If we were discussing them reasonablly it would be fine. Me and stevenson have went into this in depth on UTR but the difference is he shows respect!!!! He can joke but still show respect as I do him. You dont. You are not desiring information you desire to beat a drum that shows your spirit. I have nothing against cogop never had. I did not agree with the route they went so Im not there. You and others do so you are there. Thats fine with me. I love those in cogop this why I choose to not debate these issues because it drags out to blatant attacks and insults. Im all for debate but if it loses any edifying purpose I will no longer be a part. If you think Im scared of something here that is just funny friend. You surely dont know where I come from. I just want to maintain a good loving christ like spirit.
SO move on, find another topic. Does it always have to be about tcog. Does you theological stanpoint go any further?

I WILL SAY FOR THE LAST TIME I APOLOGIZE IF I HAVE CAUSED ANY OFFENSE.I also stand strongly for the teachings of tcog and never hide behind them.
BUt this is so tiring and old. May God bless you.

Response: Paragraphs are a wonderful thing. I think I post on numerous topics and that this is the first time in your 166 post that I said anything about it.

I don't have a problem with anger. I haven't called you names. Your meek spirit has a problem with the exposing of who the Tcog really is in public. That is why you see me as "tough guy" "childish" "angry" full of "insults" and "attacks".

I struggle against it for the people who your organization continues to hurt. Having been formerly duped by some of the same false doctrine I find myself zealous of provoking you to better behavior. Some people imagine the chasm/schism doesn't exist and continue to fluff you in sidestepping conversation. It's like trying to imagine that brother brother-in-law isn't beating your sister at Christmas dinner.

It may work for some. Doesn't work for me. Attack anything I believe. If it is worthy it will stand. I desire to be provoked in my thought and theology. I don't desire people to ignore the obvious when it comes to my walk.

Consider if you will your mentioned friends, I love them, not even truly knowing them. The Tcog chewed them up and spit them out like the machine that it is. Or better yet our own Po Bro. who pastored, just as you, but God moved on in no uncertain terms as was predicted to greener pastures.

I'm not angry but rather just don't mince words so you will feel all cozy while continuing in bloody behavior.

I can enage on differing levels as is needful.

No unnecessary offense intended.

God bless you friend I meant no offense Go as you feel. I do think you have an axe to grind. If im wrong forgive me but if not you would not act in this manner.
If these talks were guided like this then I would continue. BTW if we are evil for still standing against divorce and remmariage fine it does not change the word of God.

James 3:13-17

13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.

15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
KJV