Yet ANOTHER dead horse beating

[RamboPreacher]

I voted 100% for change

wendy k

hehehe - but did you vote that 4 years ago when this thread was created?!?!

I don't remember ever voting on this... but, probably not.

wendy k

psssttt... BTW - it is about the perception of for and against for the topic, overall, not what someone wanted personally.

I doubt for example that anyone actually though that there would be a unanimous decision (100%) either for or against the recommendations (there were many).

coming from an area that was (and still is) pretty conservative, there was a concern that about 50% or maybe more, would be against.

[Poimen]

Thank you, (Thread-necromancer-KelleyD and) Poimen for reminding me that you believe and insist that I am an unrepentant sinner and apparently unsaved as I continue remaining with my wife. ahh - the love.

Rambo,

You know better. You know that is not the spirit or purpose in my writing. You know that I am sharing my honest conviction and understanding of Scripture on the issue of remarriage. I can do no less. That doesn't mean I do not love you.

As for the sinfulness of the matter, I believe that biblically such is sinful. However I realize it may be a matter of perfecting holiness and growing in grace for many who are indeed born again and have repented of all known sin in their life, such as yourself.

That does not change the fact that as far as the issue itself is concerned that I believe such a marriage relationship to be invalid according to Scripture.

[teach]

I voted 100% for change

wendy k

hehehe - but did you vote that 4 years ago when this thread was created?!?!

I don't remember ever voting on this... but, probably not.

wendy k

psssttt... BTW - it is about the perception of for and against for the topic, overall, not what someone wanted personally.

I doubt for example that anyone actually though that there would be a unanimous decision (100%) either for or against the recommendations (there were many).

coming from an area that was (and still is) pretty conservative, there was a concern that about 50% or maybe more, would be against.

oops... my bad... pastorgary feel free to discard my vote...

wendy k

[RamboPreacher]

Thank you, (Thread-necromancer-KelleyD and) Poimen for reminding me that you believe and insist that I am an unrepentant sinner and apparently unsaved as I continue remaining with my wife. ahh - the love.

Rambo,

You know better. You know that is not the spirit or purpose in my writing. You know that I am sharing my honest conviction and understanding of Scripture on the issue of remarriage. I can do no less. That doesn't mean I do not love you.

As for the sinfulness of the matter, I believe that biblically such is sinful. However I realize it may be a matter of perfecting holiness and growing in grace for many who are indeed born again and have repented of all known sin in their life, such as yourself.

That does not change the fact that as far as the issue itself is concerned that I believe such a marriage relationship to be invalid according to Scripture.

no.
I don't know any better.
I am a continued-sinner, apparently. I can understand that you can love me, but that isn't what is expressed, in my opinion.

you seem to be holding a double-standard, or a dichotomy-view. it is continued sin, but in my case it is growing in grace and "perfecting holiness" (whatever that means), after repenting of all known sin in my life, but then I have continuing sin:

My argument is simply that, according to the NT, if a person marries again WHILE THEIR SPOUSE LIVES they enter into adultery. Accordingly, that condition persists for as long as the spouse lives.

My previous wife is alive as well as my first wife and the wife that bore my children is attending our church (attends my Sunday School class by choice and is one of my best students!), so very much alive.

so, I am either "persistent" in sin, or I have been forgiven. your postings are confusing, and apparently saying both.

and BTW - I can't help but take all this personally. it is a personal issue, and is a life-affecting topic that some tend to forget in their crass pre-judgements of others that are in the midst of or have been through circumstances that might just be outside of the scope of anything they can do about it.

divorce while a previous spouse is alive is NOT the "unforgivable sin". why is it made out to be? why do people believe that it is?

[MacUser]

If a christian comes to me, shows the fruits and gifts, desires to HELP us out in Ministry and is Effective in doing that. How in the blue blazes can I go back in a previous moment in time and deem them unacceptable?

[Poimen]

I don't know any better.

Well then after years of interaction togther I suppose you have yet to believe what I have written to you about this. I am sorry that I have lacked the conviction and clarity to make myself better known.

I am a continued-sinner, apparently. I can understand that you can love me, but that isn't what is expressed, in my opinion.

But Rambo that is your transference of personal feelings onto the matter. It is not a lack of love being expressed. It is simply a belief on what the bible ideal and standard is. I am speaking the truth (as I know it), and I am speaking it in love.

you seem to be holding a double-standard, or a dichotomy-view. it is continued sin, but in my case it is growing in grace and "perfecting holiness" (whatever that means), after repenting of all known sin in my life, but then I have continuing sin

Yes. I readily admit it is a dichotomy, or a seeming contradictory duality of belief.

Because of the widespread difference in teaching received in this regard I accept that many have come to saving faith in Christ who do not understand the proper teaching of Scripture with regards to marriage and remarriage. As long as they are walking in the light and do what they know to do they have fellowship with God and the community of believers.

If they should come to see the truth and reject the light then they would culpable for their error and it would be held against them as unrepentant sin.

My argument is simply that, according to the NT, if a person marries again WHILE THEIR SPOUSE LIVES they enter into adultery. Accordingly, that condition persists for as long as the spouse lives.

My previous wife is alive as well as my first wife and the wife that bore my children is attending our church (attends my Sunday School class by choice and is one of my best students!), so very much alive.

If you read both of my replies you will notice that I left room for the exception. The quote above is a restating of the general rule. And friend, it is the word of God. Romans 7:3 says it, not me. I just repeated it. It is the teaching and standard of the NT.

Yet, again, I am unsure of just what the exceptions of Scripture entail and if or when they permit remarriage (personally I do not feel they do permit remarriage, but that's another thread I suppose). I admit the possibility of those exceptions. Yet, outside that, the Scripture emphatically declares that to marry again while one's spouse lives is adultery, and that it will remain adultery so long as ("while" is the exact term Scripture uses) that spouse lives.

divorce while a previous spouse is alive is NOT the "unforgivable sin". why is it made out to be? why do people believe that it is?

Your right. It's not. I do not believe that it is treated like it is. That is a misnomer and an exaggeration of the truth (IMO).

Divorce and remarriage is not unforgivable. Yet, to knowingly remain in a remarried condition while one's spouse lives constitutes ongoing adultery. So says the word of God (Romans 7:3). It can and will be forgiven when it is confessed and forsaken, just like any other sin.

[Gerald Creasy]

Divorce and remarriage is not unforgivable. Yet, to knowingly remain in a remarried condition while one's spouse lives constitutes ongoing adultery. So says the word of God (Romans 7:3). It can and will be forgiven when it is confessed and forsaken, just like any other sin.

If have two living spouses is Biblicly wrong, WHY did the Old testament give men guidance on HOW THEIR SECOND Wife -while still married to the first- should be treated?

If have two living spouses is Biblicly wrong, In 1st kings, why is it said of David that he "turned not aside from the commandments of the Lord" except for the matter of Bathsheba, when David had at least seven wives already?

WHY DOES the Bible state that taking a wife back after she lived with another man SHOULD NOT BE DONE????

[paul]

Trying to respect PG WISHES I will not respond to the poll. But, Poimen taking Rom 7:3 and using it as a defense for your position here, is to deny all that Paul has been talking about up to that point and also the remainder of the book of Romans. Remember Paul's statement; : Under the Law, or The Law said. Romans is emphising the difference between the Law, and Grace and faith which we received from Jesus Christ even while we were enemies of the cross.

Paul was making reference to being bound to the law, as long as the law ruled us we were bond to it. But now that we are in Christ we are no longer bound but we are free to serve Christ Jesus.

Jesus was the only one authorized to come and fulfill the law and the only one who had the authority to break its bondage.

I will agree with Gerald on this one.

[RamboPreacher]

I don't know any better.

Well then after years of interaction togther I suppose you have yet to believe what I have written to you about this. I am sorry that I have lacked the conviction and clarity to make myself better known.

I am a continued-sinner, apparently. I can understand that you can love me, but that isn't what is expressed, in my opinion.

But Rambo that is your transference of personal feelings onto the matter. It is not a lack of love being expressed. It is simply a belief on what the bible ideal and standard is. I am speaking the truth (as I know it), and I am speaking it in love.

you seem to be holding a double-standard, or a dichotomy-view. it is continued sin, but in my case it is growing in grace and "perfecting holiness" (whatever that means), after repenting of all known sin in my life, but then I have continuing sin

Yes. I readily admit it is a dichotomy, or a seeming contradictory duality of belief.

Because of the widespread difference in teaching received in this regard I accept that many have come to saving faith in Christ who do not understand the proper teaching of Scripture with regards to marriage and remarriage. As long as they are walking in the light and do what they know to do they have fellowship with God and the community of believers.

If they should come to see the truth and reject the light then they would culpable for their error and it would be held against them as unrepentant sin.

My argument is simply that, according to the NT, if a person marries again WHILE THEIR SPOUSE LIVES they enter into adultery. Accordingly, that condition persists for as long as the spouse lives.

My previous wife is alive as well as my first wife and the wife that bore my children is attending our church (attends my Sunday School class by choice and is one of my best students!), so very much alive.

If you read both of my replies you will notice that I left room for the exception. The quote above is a restating of the general rule. And friend, it is the word of God. Romans 7:3 says it, not me. I just repeated it. It is the teaching and standard of the NT.

Yet, again, I am unsure of just what the exceptions of Scripture entail and if or when they permit remarriage (personally I do not feel they do permit remarriage, but that's another thread I suppose). I admit the possibility of those exceptions. Yet, outside that, the Scripture emphatically declares that to marry again while one's spouse lives is adultery, and that it will remain adultery so long as ("while" is the exact term Scripture uses) that spouse lives.

divorce while a previous spouse is alive is NOT the "unforgivable sin". why is it made out to be? why do people believe that it is?

Your right. It's not. I do not believe that it is treated like it is. That is a misnomer and an exaggeration of the truth (IMO).

Divorce and remarriage is not unforgivable. Yet, to knowingly remain in a remarried condition while one's spouse lives constitutes ongoing adultery. So says the word of God (Romans 7:3). It can and will be forgiven when it is confessed and forsaken, just like any other sin.

I don't disagree with the "ideal". but I will not say that anyone that is not falling within that Ideal" is persistent/continuing sin.

remember there is no "transferring" of personal feelings. it IS personal. You are outside of the issue, apparently and can't see that it is personal, whether for me or anyone else. Your apparent paradigm is the outsider, looking in and judging, based on your preconceptions of what "Christianity" teaches.

I completely agree that sin is sin and there should be hard lines drawn. however, when sin has been forgiven, continued judgment of that sin is, in my opinion, sin of its self! (though not persistent/continuous).

I am not asking or saying that we should condone sin, but if it is forgiven, it should be recognized as such and not make broad statements such as:

My argument is simply that, according to the NT, if a person marries again WHILE THEIR SPOUSE LIVES they enter into adultery. Accordingly, that condition persists for as long as the spouse lives.

you are saying here that there is no forgiveness, unless the subsequent marriage is ended in divorce, or the first spouse must die.

the extreme logical conclusion could then be - that if a person remarries, it is less of a sin to murder their first spouse (a one-time-sin), than to continue living in sin of adultery with their subsequent spouse. and I know you don't believe that.

part of the challenge here is understanding the difference between divorce, and "putting away"; which I have expressed in the doctrine forum.

I know that you have love for me. but no, sorry, based on your contradictory beliefs (in my opinion), i do not know that you do not prejudge me as being in continuous/persistent sin, and thus rejecting salvation.

Your right. It's not. I do not believe that it is treated like it is (unforgivable sin). That is a misnomer and an exaggeration of the truth (IMO).

does not make sense after reading:

if a person marries again WHILE THEIR SPOUSE LIVES they enter into adultery. Accordingly, that condition persists for as long as the spouse lives.

and

How can you forgive someone who isn't repentant ? When someone is living in adultery they are in perpetual sin. To be repentant would mean that they quit that....

I see no exaggeration, you both are telling me that continuing to live with my wife while my previous spouse is alive is non-repentant, continuous, perpetual, persistent, unforgivable, sin.

[Poimen]

Paul was making reference to being bound to the law, as long as the law ruled us we were bond to it. But now that we are in Christ we are no longer bound but we are free to serve Christ Jesus.

I realize that. However, it is those who would ignore that he uses this as a premise for why we are free from the law that would ignore the truth of the matter.

If remarriage while one's spouse lives did not constitute adultery, and if that condition did not continue so long as the spouse lives, then Paul's comparison to the law, Christ, marriage, death, & remarriage would make no sense.

Thus, Romans 7:3 clearly shows the apostolic teaching on the matter as received by Christ.

[Poimen]

If have two living spouses is Biblically wrong, WHY did the Old testament give men guidance on HOW THEIR SECOND Wife -while still married to the first- should be treated?

I don't recall any such instruction. I believe you, I just don't recall it. Having said that, I don't know why. I don't know why a lot of things happened, were permitted, etc., under the OT.

If have two living spouses is Biblically wrong, In 1st kings, why is it said of David that he "turned not aside from the commandments of the Lord" except for the matter of Bathsheba, when David had at least seven wives already?

Again, I don't know. I do know that under the NT marriage is set forth as the union of one man to one woman for life. Likewise, under the NT, I know that as a rule to remarry while one's spouse lives constitutes adultery.

Whatever I don't know, does not excuse me from what I do know, nor does it dismiss what is clearly stated elsewhere, especially under the NT.

[Paully_44]

Holy Cow, a thread that has been dormant for nearly 3 years resurfaces. I wish I had that kind of time

[Shellie]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Holy Cow, a thread that has been dormant for nearly 3 years resurfaces.

Uhhh, try four.

[AndyG]

I thought threads this old faded away.

Somebody want to do it a favor and euthanize it and start a new one if needed? (Although personally I think this thread is more about desecrating the corpse of an Equus Caballus)

[Mat]

removed