Go RICK PERRY!

[one love]

"one love

Lets go! Give up everything we know and hold dear because we do not like how it is now, so since we LOVE America so much...lets destroy her

Its not a matter of giving up everything we hold dear...it's already being taken away. America is already being destroyed.

No you have not!!!! Are things changing and getting aggravating YES but you have not lost what you hold dear, as I was saying!

Is there a civil war in your yard, kids family in danger of war. Job gone, poverty, NO home, No food etc. A nation that no longer exist as a major power any longer because of a civil war? Dont think you would be leaving for any mission trips if this happens.

I hear so much but some people are NOT thinking this through seriously. The civil war was one of the (if not the worst) hardest times this nation ever had and what they truly fought over, did NOT change!

So yes taxes may go up, I am against that.The bailout was awful, I agree.(however all the Obama signs that passed blame on him for that is not justified because MY candidate did that) ..wow i find myself sounding as if I am supporting Obama and I am NOT.

But I have heard many discussions lately and some that were at the tea parties that make these type statements that we must revolt and take it back by force. I am telling you your life will be over as you know it. Right now it has not been disturbed much (to be truthful)
So after our nation is no longer meaningful at all and we are all dead/starving it will still not change back to our beginnings, it will just destroy our nation!

You make the same argument, essentially, as the CNN reporter who asked the guy why he was protesting because, after all, he's getting a $400 tax credit. It isn't about the government trickling a benefit to me; it is about government being relegated to its proper scope in American life. Long, long before the federal government exercised the power we know today, the one we've learned to take as a given, it was a limited government that honored the original constitutional principles of federalism. That, not this, is the real American tradition and way. This thing we've got now is the intruder, the corrupter, the ruiner, if you will, of the nation.

Telling me how good I've got it now is not a response to the issue. The government's power and corruption cannot come with enough amenities to placate me in the face of forced servitude. The bottom line remains that what's mine is mine, and the federal government should be able to take no more from me than I yield to it of my own volition; it also remains that I am free, by nature, to do as I please until my actions cause direct harm to you or someone else. The government as you know it today has wholly discarded these principles. It now is fully active in robbing my property against my will and in limiting my actions based on its own substituted judgments of what is best for me. That I've "got it good" somehow is insufficient. I am not free. Nor are you; you just don't know it.

I admire your work ethic. I'm glad you've decided that disability is worth fighting through. However, your plaintive question is not a response to the point that you shouldn't be forced to pay taxes. Get your taxes back? How about not having to pay them in the first place? How about the government not taking on the role of caretaker for the disabled?? It's not their job.

And, don't turn this into a southern thing. I won't stand for that. I detest the notion of secession for the purposes of slavery. That's what you're telling me I'm hearkening to when I suggest that Rick Perry has struck a chord. I've said here before that the Confederacy stunk and was wrong because of slavery. Guess what? What you are doing is preserving union so that we can be enslaved!!! You've only substituted plantation owners with politicians, and you've only moved the population to be enslaved from black people to all people. Your argument is that if we're all slaves together we'll make it through somehow, but by George, we'll still be together. No, thanks.

EDIT: Dolfan I do apologize if I have come across as arrogant or offensive at all, I surely do not want to leave that impression. I respect you greatly!!!!!!!
My Main question is do you really want a civil war over this,? Not the content of what we ALL dislike..


Dolfan do you really believe that after 4 months of Obama you are ready and willing to go into a FULL blown civil war right now? that is the answer i am looking for. Tomorrow are you willing to take up arms against your neighbors, friends, fellow Christians and go to war with our own nation? yes or no, that is really all I want to know.

I never made it a southern thing, I was joking and wrote that in my post. I have heard some say things to that nature "the south is going to rise" Then we wonder why people think we are a bunch of racist southerners..

I was making a point that after the CIVIL war nothing changed! I do not believe the War had anything to do with slavery in the beginning, so race has nothing to do with it either. I am responding to comments I have heard around me, here and on tv. where people act as if they want to revolt and go to war with our gov., citizens, which also consist of our CHILDREN.... THAT IS MY POINT. I think it is over reacting (though the reasoning why they are upset is correct, i feel the same) I don't feel like warring with my neighbors over a huge political difference! If we had a true conservative come in and push OUR agenda and the Liberals said "we should revolt, got to war, break form the union" we would be posting about it EVERYDAY saying

"can you believe they have the audacity to say that?"

Point rested..... I truly believe you are reading to much into what I was saying and taking it personally.I am here for a few reasons

1. to win the lost and serve God
2. supply for my family

Going to war with my own nation does not fit my pattern, I do not wish to revolt with VIOLENCE with our countrymen because I dont like Obama, Or Bush, or anyone else that took place in the stimulus, bailout or the raising of taxes.
I would go to war if my life is threatened , if we were truly enslaved and it affected my
#1 and #2 ( as written)
I am not enslaved NOW, I just disagree with what is being done. I can start a company freely, do as I please for the most part. I just see Bill clinton all over again, was he worth destroying our nation over and revolting? NO... he helped us get the house and senate I do feel that we will get the senate and house again in the next elections.

Beyond that I will d what this nation has always done, stand up let my voice be heard, vote my conscience and pray for things to get better, hope for a good economy (which is not good but getting somewhat better)

Nobody talked this way before Obama, 5 months and some are ready to revolt. I find that insane ( Dolfan I mostly referring to what I have heard elsewhere not here, your words slightly resembled others)
I love ya Brother and I am sorry if you were offended I do agree with you regarding many things, ALL I am saying are you really ready to leave your family, business, church and take up arms against your neighbor? Dolfan that would end our nation not fix it. The world would move on with out us.......... We would not rebound. I do not believe that everything has changed so much since he took office that I am ready to leave my family and go to war with our citizens.


BTW it would be almost a north verse south thing even though many in the north are thinking as we are in these tea parties........


IN Closing

I believe some republicans are being hypocrites!!!!!!!!! That is not aimed at anyone here, again I am referring to what I hear on the radio, T.V. and those around me!
I believe in the principles of our forefathers, that does not include violence. They did hate Taxation WITHOUT representation, we are not in that situation. Our money is not going to another king overseas to benefit their nation. Our roads are paved here and our Military is here, that money pays for us to have the excellence that we saw with the recently rescued captain...etc...taxes do go to help our nation!

Me , I want the faritax plan and I would then be happy. I don't believe that all taxes should end as some have stated!
Yes I saw more then a few signs at the tea parties that had nothing to do with what they were about, they only were slamming obama. As I was told on the news, those meetings were not meant for that, Over all I think they went great and I was to bothered by cnn, and BTW I don't sound like them at all................

I am against raising taxes, period. But it would be short minded of me to think we need NO taxes... The fair tax would be fair IMHO
I dont like many social programs, however if I pay taxes and then could never work again I would want to receive what I paid into all these years. If someone really cant work at all, I do believe they should be helped out somehow Not just die homeless and starving. If you lose your job, look for one. Some may have to get unemployment, that is fine with me, I paid for that as well through my business. welfare should not be as it is now, it should be for those that truly need it, just as those that are disabled and I would rather teach them a trade in six months to a year and then end their welfare so it does not become a way of life for them.

Yes taxes should change, Yes the bailouts stink, yes the stimulus was horrible , I agree and I believe people are going to stand up and vote for real change in the congressional elections, then see how much Obama can get done with some of this.

Go to war and end our nation and watch our children die? NEVER, that is radical in my opinion. If anyone here says they would walk up right now and take up arms, leave their family and never return, I would say YES that is radical.

[Tim Elston]

Would it be better to talk of a coup instead of a civil war? You'd have to get the Army to back it. But the Department of Defense is one of the biggest clients and perpetrators of the fraudulence. You'd have to find some generals who were willing to revolt against their civilian leadership. Most if not all generals would have to be on board or it would risk turning into a civil war. Then you'd have to have someone in on it who had a monetary system design and economic plan to impose that could survive as a rival of the current global system and you'd have to outlaw congressional lobbying and somehow incapacitate the domestic corporate interests that would array themselves against changing the status quo. Then you'd have to expunge the Judicial Branch along ideological lines. Then, after a period of martial law--after all, a coup is unconstitutional--you'd have to relinquish your control back to constitutional rule, which, due to the nature of democracy, would expose the government to the vicissitudes of the people.

All this seems quite impractical and unlikely to me. We're probably better off buying a fiddle or joining them since we can't beat them. In fact, we have already joined them since we ourselves are the world's rich. We undoubtedly deserve whatever we get, from a very high perspective.

[one love]

Interesting perspective Tim!

I want to add this all seems like a Y2k world is going to end type thing to me! that is what bothers me. When many Christians were scared running and storing as if the world is ending, I was preaching to live by faith!

I remember some in the mountains near FOTW (of many denominations) were storing and keeping people on guard waiting for people to try and steal their food because the world was ending... It also happened in many other states as well...


I disagree with what has happened, just as those that disagreed with president Bush and the war. They rallied up and Obama became president. This is the realistic approach, that is my point.

All I want is a candidate to gain support that is dedicated to changing the tax code (fairtax.org works for me)

Creating civil war and ending life as we know it, Is what bothers me, that thinking.

Alabama is a state like many, in which people are very informed about the civil war (VA. was as well, confederate soldiers statues everywhere etc.) we would never want that here in this day and age.
Honestly if we really are honest, we would NEVER recover. It makes me wonder if we are so divided as a nation that it could be what brings America down to a meaningless nation!
I never understood democrats attitudes and I do not understand Republicans attitudes Now. MY PRESIDENT got the bailout through...

What if the economy does rebound and these companies are able to pay the money back, especially since they do not want the government in their business! would we be happy?

I heard Hannity saying the other day that Obama gets NO credit for saving the captain. He said "he did not do anything"
Yet he was the first to scream that Bush deserves credit for protecting us, defeat of Saddam etc. this is hypocritical. No ideas just obama bashing just as they did to Bush. I think they are following the democrats own playbook to try and win, I think it will back fire...

I am a republican/conservative and I said I would not hate Obama just to hate him and blame him for everything as they did Bush. I will voice my disagreements and I love people getting involved, respectfully as Christians should be......

Not with a thought of violence against our own nation...


sorry for the long post, I am breaking my own rules I just dont want to be misunderstood, many times I cant express my thought as I would like to.

[dolfan]

I don't know how to say more clearly that I don't want civil war. But, I also don't want to be enslaved to the Federal Government, and I disagree with you and contend that we are. We have a right and duty, should we decide, to resist with violent means. IF it comes to that. Honestly, One Love, I don't see any hope for change. Not only do I doubt there'll be violence, I doubt there'll be any real energy about change. That's why I have said what I've said about the tea parties.

[Tim Elston]

We have a right and duty, should we decide, to resist with violent means. IF it comes to that.

This stands in stark contrast to the Christians within the Roman Empire before Constantine, doesn't it? From where, in your mind, does the sense of duty to resist the state by violent means derive? Do you see this as a part of the Christian mandate? Does it arise straight from the Cross itself? Or is it a worldly right that stands irrespective of your possession by Christ? Were it to come to violent revolt, would Christ go before you to thwart the provision of Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare to the poor by the Federal Government, or would you be on your own in that? How valiant to spill blood so that the church, instead of the government, can provide for the poor--or at least speak platitudes to that effect.

[one love]

Its not a matter of giving up everything we hold dear...it's already being taken away. America is already being destroyed.

No you have not!!!! Are things changing and getting aggravating YES but you have not lost what you hold dear, as I was saying!

Is there a civil war in your yard, kids family in danger of war. Job gone, poverty, NO home, No food etc. A nation that no longer exist as a major power any longer because of a civil war? Dont think you would be leaving for any mission trips if this happens.

I hear so much but some people are NOT thinking this through seriously. The civil war was one of the (if not the worst) hardest times this nation ever had and what they truly fought over, did NOT change!

So yes taxes may go up, I am against that.The bailout was awful, I agree.(however all the Obama signs that passed blame on him for that is not justified because MY candidate did that) ..wow i find myself sounding as if I am supporting Obama and I am NOT.

But I have heard many discussions lately and some that were at the tea parties that make these type statements that we must revolt and take it back by force. I am telling you your life will be over as you know it. Right now it has not been disturbed much (to be truthful)
So after our nation is no longer meaningful at all and we are all dead/starving it will still not change back to our beginnings, it will just destroy our nation!

Kevin, you're making good sense. This is level-headed. It doesn't suffer from undo ideological fever. I personally have no problem with taxes, in principle, and think that there is no injustice to the government providing a social network for the elderly and indigent. I would like to see the elimination of the exploitation of labor by the powerful, and that would take a strong democratic government. We don't have a democratically controlled government, however. We have a monopolistically controlled government. Perhaps Tim Shelton and I would both be fighting the government in a civil war, but for different causes.

In any case, you, Kevin, are right. We are not nearly as deprived and slighted as our rhetoric suggests. Fortunately, level heads usually rule; unfortunately, sometimes they don't. My main concern is with the monetary system, which has been manipulated to favor the Megas Plutous to the detriment of the Pluribus. I am not offended at providing social services to the less fortunate, and I have a hard time sympathizing with those who are offended at that, especially in an age of global hardship and poverty. But who am I? I got a cold chill reading Ayn Rand.

Thank you Tim I was hoping I made some sense

I just think it is insane to think of a internal war! So I dont do well with even the thought of it! IF it is spoken then lets really talk about how it will be!

Were it to come to violent revolt, would Christ go before you to thwart the provision of Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare to the poor by the Federal Government, or would you be on your own in that? How valiant to spill blood so that the church, instead of the government, can provide for the poor--or at least speak platitudes to that effect.

That is kinda my point as well! You have a gift with words Tim, sure wish I could write as well as you and Dolfan!

[Shellie]

"The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men."
Samuel Adams

[one love]

that is good but I am talking about people acting as if they are taking up a rifle Right now! in this day and fight their countrymen period. That is my only point.
It is radical... Also I find it hard to believe a christian would be talking this way, making that their life mission now, to defeat liberals by force instead of winning the lost......

I understand the anger, frustration and all of that, I agree. It is the far fetched radical comments I have heard lately that make us look like right wing radicals. We called cindy shehan (spelling) radical just for camping out in front if Bush's ranch because she was against the war, yet some are now talking of civil war

I am trying to figure out what Major changes have taken place to make people SO UPSET that they would be willing to destroy their lives, families, churches and the nation itself, then act as if it would recover.....

I know the bailout...whoops that was Bush!
The stimilus, possible tax increases..... okay......still not seeing the outrage that brings war... just political differences. Liberals have always felt this way and acted this way! Why are we shocked?

Surely you cant think we dont need any taxes?I have heard some say they should not tax us at all, then say "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS OBAMA" in the same sentence...I dont get it..

[Shellie]

one love wrote:

that is good but I am talking about people acting as if they are taking up a rifle Right now!

I don't see anyone here saying that. However, David took 5 stones for a reason.

in this day and fight their countrymen period.

Living in my country does not make you my countrymen.

[Full Quiver]

Kevin, you have already armed yourselves and the current administration has you and your family in their sights.

You are ....
#1 a Christian
#2 a gun owner
#3 a business owner
#4 a conservative

Heads up bro, they are looking for you.

Are you implying that you'd rather have socialism and maybe worse over secession?

Give me liberty or give me death!!!

[MacUser]

Kevin, you have already armed yourselves and the current administration has you and your family in their sights.

You are ....
#1 a Christian
#2 a gun owner
#3 a business owner
#4 a conservative

Heads up bro, they are looking for you.

Are you implying that you'd rather have socialism and maybe worse over secession?

Give me liberty or give me death!!!

Quickly.. BRAVO.. FQ
I'm in the exact same boat.. only I see the pirates coming!!

[Full Quiver]

Would it be better to talk of a coup instead of a civil war?

There has already been a coup and Obama sits at the top now.


The Constitution gives us the right to take up arms against an oppressive federal govt. Our forefathers did it and I am not hearing anyone here apologize for that (though if Obama were here he would try) but now we want to act like that is not a logical possibility.

[one love]

I just dont think it is near as bad as you are implying. Not to go to arms and DESTROY this nation so our children have no future.
If I disagree with someone politically Shellie I still count them a American! They were Born here the same as you.


FQ. I get the point, but I still have my guns, I am a Christian and all the rest. I have not heard a bill proposed in congress to ban guns right now. It could happen but goodness you all act like the liberals have taken over and we are now Russia and Obama accomplished all that in 5 months? WOW he is good....

I am concerned, just as I was with Clinton. This is ALL the same playbook folks.

Shellie I said these are the things I have heard around me and on TV, not here. Dolfan may have hinted to a revolt.

Texas Governor talking about Recession would not help Texas or the nation. it is all politics! To prove it was politics is that 75% OF Texas would not want to leave.

Now when we were in all out war, we said Democrats were being divisive and making things harder for our nation, now you are talking of secession.... I find that HARD to swallow.

Really all this is over is the stimulus and the thought that we KNOW he wants to raise taxes. TO me it will just fuel us to vote next election and win back the house.

I stand behind my comments, civil war would be the END of this nation for good.

[one love]

Would it be better to talk of a coup instead of a civil war?

There has already been a coup and Obama sits at the top now.


The Constitution gives us the right to take up arms against an oppressive federal govt. Our forefathers did it and I am not hearing anyone here apologize for that (though if Obama were here he would try) but now we want to act like that is not a logical possibility.

who are you going to fight our own military? Come on, have the democrats defeated you all so much that you feel that the conservative movement is dead? I can NOT believe this..... IN 5 months he has all of you panicked as if it were over, done with and this nation is sunk.

Danny to battle these days would be the end of the nation, while we would be fighting the rest of the worl would pick up the pieces and we would cease to exist.....

I do not fear Obama, I just disagree with him. Win the house back si what we should be concentrating on. Rational thinking.

We wonder why it was said to watch out for radical right wing people. I am hearing some justify force against our nation and revolt against the president of the united States.....

America is not just made up of Republicans, if we dont get our way you want to FORCE it on them instead of doing the same way they did. BUsh had a 70-80% approval rating at one time and the Dems were tore up, yet they won again. SO can we...calm down


You talk about business and all that but that would cease with this kind of thinking.

[Poimen]

1. Secession need not result in war. If a foreign power does not invade a sovereign state what need is there for war?

2. If war resulted, it would not be a civil war, not based on secession. It would only be a civil war if it led to revolt and control of the Union as we know it.

3. No one wants a war, period. But DC needs to know the people are willing and able. Empty threats are no good. Hints and threats will only get us so far. Eventually we will have to take action, or nothing will really change.

4. As to Dixie -- slavery itself aside, these are the real underlying issues (essentially predicated on the 10th amendment) that caused secession then, and they are still divisive. President Davis said, "The principle for which we contend is bound to reassert itself, though it may be at another time and in another form."

Y'all, it's here!

5. This is not merely a reaction to liberal "success" over conservatism. The fact is, both of those platforms and their respective parties have failed us. Shoot, the republican party is the primary agent of the violation of 10th amendment and states rights. They have both been leavened, and as result have leavened the whole lump. Sometimes it's easier to tear down and build anew than it is to try and remodel. If that's what must needs be done, so be it.