Trouble in the NABORhood

[TC]

I have heard that Nabors has been accused before (in Missouri, I think).
But, all of this is speculation. This is why I have been careful to use the word "alledged".

The fact is that there is a group within the Nabors organization that believes this to be true. As a matter fact, I have spoken to several within the organization and have yet to speak to one that does not believe that the affair happened.

I also am very shocked and find it hard to believe that the Hatten's could be involved in any way. But, the accusations are there. And it is divding that church and has divided the Nabors family.

When I say it doesn't look good for Nabors, I am not saying that Nabors is guilty. I am just saying that Nabors wife has left him, kids have turned on him, the majority of his church family has turned on him. If he is innocent this is very unfortunate for him. But, he has caused a lot of pain and heartache to many a few years ago, so I will not shed a tear for him.

Brother Carant

OK I don't know you or really anyone in this church other than Scott, but again you are saying that you believe this happened before but then come up with "this is all speculation" then you again say you are not saying he is guilty but then you follow that by he has caused alot of pain and heartache and you would not shed a tear for him. You have made it clear no matter how much you throw the speculations and allegations in there you have made it clear that you think he is guilty no matter what.

Again I don't really know this man, and i have had more than my share of Ministers that do not uphold the standard in the word. On the other hand i have seen more than my share people under those in power who will use anything to advance their position in the organization or advance their friends in that organization. THere have been many minsters and spouses that have separated and it does not mean that either of them has done anything wrong.

It is easy to take sides when all you hear is one side, And I find it funny that I feel like I am defending a man that I really don't know. What is is more funny or should i say sad that some believe this is true no matter what.

[carant894]

OK I don't know you or really anyone in this church other than Scott, but again you are saying that you believe this happened before but then come up with "this is all speculation" then you again say you are not saying he is guilty but then you follow that by he has caused alot of pain and heartache and you would not shed a tear for him. You have made it clear no matter how much you throw the speculations and allegations in there you have made it clear that you think he is guilty no matter what.

I am GUILTY, as charged!!!!! Yes, I do think he did it. I am a cheif among the speculators. It is speculation!!! And, I have a right to have an opinion, while acknowledging that I do not know it for a fact. I was not in the hotel room or wherever when it happened.

But, I have made it clear that I have spoken to several within his church group and have found NO ONE that does not believe that he had an affair with AH. Based on the fact that his wife and kids, and all of these church people believing it, I am inclined to believe it as well.

If you can provide names of a handful of people in his church who believe he is innocent, I will reconsider. I have not found any.

I am sorry TC, for having offended you. It was not my intention. I thought it was interesting that after Nabors behaved as he did a few years ago, that the church that he formed out of that mess is now facing another crisis. People are learning to stop putting man or church leadership before God. Man will fail, God will never fail.


Brother CARant

[TC]

OK I don't know you or really anyone in this church other than Scott, but again you are saying that you believe this happened before but then come up with "this is all speculation" then you again say you are not saying he is guilty but then you follow that by he has caused alot of pain and heartache and you would not shed a tear for him. You have made it clear no matter how much you throw the speculations and allegations in there you have made it clear that you think he is guilty no matter what.

I am GUILTY, as charged!!!!! Yes, I do think he did it. I am a cheif among the speculators. It is speculation!!! And, I have a right to have an opinion, while acknowledging that I do not know it for a fact. I was not in the hotel room or wherever when it happened.

But, I have made it clear that I have spoken to several within his church group and have found NO ONE that does not believe that he had an affair with AH. Based on the fact that his wife and kids, and all of these church people believing it, I am inclined to believe it as well.

If you can provide names of a handful of people in his church who believe he is innocent, I will reconsider. I have not found any.

I am sorry TC, for having offended you. It was not my intention. I thought it was interesting that after Nabors behaved as he did a few years ago, that the church that he formed out of that mess is now facing another crisis. People are learning to stop putting man or church leadership before God. Man will fail, God will never fail.


Brother CARant

I pray that no one will ever make accusations about you because if people were like you that is all it would take you would be guilty. So do you always take a poll and base your views on that? Just because you have not found someone that does not believe it does not mean it is true. According to your own comments you are jumping to conclusions as taking them as fact, You said you thought there was accusations in the past, and so then you are finding him guilty of that. By Stating " Nabors behaved as he did a few years ago"

Well you really need to look to your own advice, You need to look to God. Look to God for your example and not convict a man on as you have said what is best is second hand speculation. We can look at Jesus as out example, how many things was he accused of that were not true. Ok I will say this not knowing, but I could make accusations that you had an affair with hillary clinton that does not mean it is right. I could make accusations that Mrs Nabors had an affair with any one and that she left her husband because of that, just because they have left each other, That does not make her guilty or him guilty for that matter.

If everything you said proves to be right that does not make it right for anyone to find guilt on second hand speculation. If it turns out that that any part of what you are saying is it not correct will you be a man enough, a Christian enough to call the parties involved and seek forgiveness for your pre judgements. Will you go on line and seek forgiveness for any part that you spread that was not true? We as Christians should be full of grace for others since we are only saved by grace given to us.

Brother in all due respect, we as Christians need to remember God Knows and he will judge on fact not speculation. We have no right to judge anyone

[carant894]

I apologize for sharing my opinion in such direct terms. You pretty much forced me to do so.

If a President was impeached for wrong doing, the assumption would be there that he is guilty.

If a general overseer is removed from office by the presbytery (which is what happened here), then it is natural to assume that the GO is guilty.

If you want to know the character of an individual, you talk to those that are in that individuals inner circles. Talk to his followers, talk to those close to him and form an opinion of the person based on that. This is what I have done.

I pray that if I were ever accused of anything, that this is what people would do. Talk to my friends, my family, my co-workers and determine what my character consists of. You will likely know pretty quickly if I am guilty or innocent.

I regret that you do not feel that I am behaving in a Christian manner. I beg for your forgiveness.

I concede that I have engaged more than I would have liked regarding this. It was not my intention to share my personal opinion, but rather to only share the facts of the accusations.

I clearly have taken this too far and if the moderators feel it prudent, you are more than welcome to delete this thread.

Humbly Yours,
Brother CARant

[TC]

I apologize for sharing my opinion in such direct terms. You pretty much forced me to do so.

If a President was impeached for wrong doing, the assumption would be there that he is guilty.

If a general overseer is removed from office by the presbytery (which is what happened here), then it is natural to assume that the GO is guilty.

If you want to know the character of an individual, you talk to those that are in that individuals inner circles. Talk to his followers, talk to those close to him and form an opinion of the person based on that. This is what I have done.

I pray that if I were ever accused of anything, that this is what people would do. Talk to my friends, my family, my co-workers and determine what my character consists of. You will likely know pretty quickly if I am guilty or innocent.

I regret that you do not feel that I am behaving in a Christian manner. I beg for your forgiveness.

I concede that I have engaged more than I would have liked regarding this. It was not my intention to share my personal opinion, but rather to only share the facts of the accusations.

I clearly have taken this too far and if the moderators feel it prudent, you are more than welcome to delete this thread.

Humbly Yours,
Brother CARant

Your Directness is not the problem for me it is the conviction on speculation.

Yes but as we have seen with out past impeached president, accusations were made and he was given the chance to refute those charges, that is what the Impeachment was, the chance for him to refute them.

Just because some in the "circle of power" decide to do something does not mean it is correct to do it, or that once it is done that it was done for the right reason. or the reason you might think... Is there a written statement from these men that says. He was removed for .... yadda yadda yadda. I would bet no. IF this is what these men are charging then they need to quit the speculation and put what is charged out there and let him accept it or refute it. If I recall correctly Bro Tomlinson was accused of many thing before the Split from CoG.

Again using Jesus as our example, Was he not with sinners on a daily basis? Did he know have people among his inner circle that betrayed him? I have never been drunk in my life but I have many friends that have and are drunk on a regular basis. Just because they are my friends does not mean that I am like them or they are like me. It is bad to judge people but to judge them on what their "friends" say is worst. Just look at each of the slits there are people who were friends and close and then they were not and things were said that should not have been. We don't find guilt based on what others say, we find it on one of two things. One the party admits guilt, or two that the facts are made know public and the guilty party is unable to refute them.

No One needs forgiveness from me. I have been judged unfairly in my life and I have judged unfairly. It is my desire that I never judge anyone again, usually the only one who ends up guilty is me for judging.



Here is my thoughts on the whole matter. I pray that this whole thing is a some sort of mix up and that it will be corrected soon. I pray that everyone one involved, those accused, those accusing and all of their families be covers with the Love of Christ during this whole mess.

I have judged and been judged, I am a sinner who was forgiven, I have come to the realization that it is Gods right to Judge a man (or woman) for what is in their heart. Since I can not see their heart I should leave that alone. And as the saying goes. ...but There for the Grace of God....

[Pastor Gary]

I don't know any of the people involved in this discussion. To the best of my knowledge I have never met any of them, so I have ZERO opinion, good or bad, about anybody. I can't determine the saints from the scoundrels.

I will, however, issue a caution: everyone should be very careful about spreading gossip, making unproved accusations and naming names.

Read these articles about your potential legal liabilities for harming someone's reputation online:

http://legalcatch.wordpress.com/2007/02 ... -internet/

http://www.ibls.com/internet_law_news_p ... ws&id=1874

[TC]

I am sorry I should have have accused anyone of having an affair with Hillary Clinton....

I am sorry that was a LOW BLOW....I would not wish that on my worst enemy.... Well but putting her with the O would take care of two birds with one stone.

[RamboPreacher]

...

I hate to see this about anybody... it never ends well

exactly. prayers continue.

[one love]

First of all I am glad PG has posted that. Having your name plastered online for all to see can be a very hurtful and painful thing to go through. It is very sad that it is christians that do this so much. I have been guilty of it in the past and I sure hope that I have never caused anyone any hurt.
Whether this is true or not, it is just a allegation that has No real proof. What if this is not true? How much hurt would this cause to the family of the woman that is being accused? Is it right for anyone to afflict such painful rumors whether they are true or not?
I offer up my prayers for ALL involved and pray that nobody becomes lost over this.

[carant894]

First of all I am glad PG has posted that. Having your name plastered online for all to see can be a very hurtful and painful thing to go through. It is very sad that it is christians that do this so much. I have been guilty of it in the past and I sure hope that I have never caused anyone any hurt.
Whether this is true or not, it is just a allegation that has No real proof. What if this is not true? How much hurt would this cause to the family of the woman that is being accused? Is it right for anyone to afflict such painful rumors whether they are true or not?
I offer up my prayers for ALL involved and pray that nobody becomes lost over this.

I 100% agree and ask for forgiveness. My posts were not well thought through and I could have informed what was going on without getting into some of the specifics.

PG- I also respect and appreciate the legal advice. I do not believe that I have said anything that could get me into legal trouble, but the thread is fastly heading into dangerous territory and I am mostly to blame. Please, if you feel we have slipped too far down that slippery slope, as moderator, delete the entire thread.

Once again, I was wrong and feel terrible. To all concerned, I am sorry. And, pray that the accusations are false and if they are true that God's hand of mercy will be upon all of those involved.

God Bless you all,
Brother Carant

[Full Quiver]

Scott's bishop's license would have to be revoked IF his wife was indeed involved in an affair.

Either way, whether Nabors is guilty or not he can no longer be the General Overseer of this or any group. Why you ask? Well because his wife has left him and therefore he can no longer be a Bishop and thus cannot be the GO.


It seems that Nabors is hung in a catch 22.

It's easy to say that someone would never have an affair. That's like saying that someone would never steal a church property and redeed it to themselves.

If one is interested they can find a collection of videos, produced by Juan Bonilla I believe, that show Nabors being installed as GO. It's quite sad really especially since this alleged affair has been taking place this entire time, 3 years or so. It's just pathetic and my hope here is that some sensible people come to the realization that grace trumps works and the church of God is a myth perpetuated by the spirit of the Pharisees that Jesus Himself rebuked openly.

Even in one of the videos one can see Nabors looking at the woman that he allegedly had an affair with and he seems to be lusting after her.


For his daughter and son in law to turn on him there must be some proof because they worshiped him.

[TC]

First I will not pretend to understand when someone must give up their license, but My thought is while when spouses leaving each other is not a good thing, I think to quickly pull a license without the chance to have things resolve it a little took quick a Judgment.

It's quite sad really especially since this alleged affair has been taking place this entire time, 3 years or so. It's just pathetic and my hope here is that some sensible people come to the realization that grace trumps works and the church of God is a myth perpetuated by the spirit of the Pharisees that Jesus Himself rebuked openly.

Even in one of the videos one can see Nabors looking at the woman that he allegedly had an affair with and he seems to be lusting after her.

Ok So you are convicting him as well, You are making Judgments and as you say 3 years ago But to say that from the video you can see he "seems to be lusting after her"

Well please post a link to the video you are saying he seems to be lusting after her, I would like to see if I think that is what it is showing.

Again I do not know this man or his daughter and son in law. But the Mom could be mistaken on something, told her daughter and she believed it and son in law follow along. This happens in almost every case where a family is slit kids take a side.

[Full Quiver]

You can google his name and find the videos. I am allowed to have an opinion. This isn't a court room or a presbytery meeting TC.

It is reported that around a dozen eye witnesses have seen the two making out. Also there are pictures reportedly. Why do you refute such a testimony as 12 eye witnesses with pics?

I'm just saying. I don't know, honestly don't need to know but if it is true I hope some folks shake themselves and find absolute truth in all this.

[dawgs10]

Ok I guess I am looking at this from a family stand point and maybe that is coloring my vision. Yes the allegations were made but I am surprised that so many on here are assuming everything is true.

I am not saying it is or is not true, I do not believe that is it with who some have said it was with. But according to some he is guilty and that is that.

It is like that whole saying... When everything is known, if that is not the case. Where do they go to get their reputation back.

I hate to see this about anybody... it never ends well

either way its another split in the TRUE, FOR SURE CHURCH i have always said that it is a spirit from satan that causes churchs to split and start up your own. they carry that spirit with them when they go and it just keeps on spliting.

[TC]

well there are tons of videos, you said you saw what seemed to me him lusting after her. I would like to see at what point you think you see him lusting after someone from a video

He may or may not be doing that but I find it hard to believe you can see someone lusting after someone in a room full of people

It is reported that around a dozen eye witnesses have seen the two making out. Also there are pictures reportedly. Why do you refute such a testimony as 12 eye witnesses with pics?

Ok is this man an woman so stupid they would "make out" where people could see? much less around a dozen, (or as you later say 12... is it around a dozen or 12... two different things) So if this happened why didn't ONE of these twelve go up to them and say "what are you doing" why would they stand back and watch it happen and much less pull out a camera to take pics... TO me that put a lot of doubt in my mind about this whole thing. If it happened and 12 people confronted them at that very second it would mean much more than let it happen and wait until later to bring it up... And another thought. If this was supposed to be going on for three years, where is the proof of that? Were these pics and witnesses proof of that three years ago? If so why did they wait until now to bring it out? If not where did the three years come from

Have you seen these pics? Were you one of these "around a dozen" If not why do you just accept this as fact. I am not refuting the testimony of 12 eye witnesses, I have not taken the testimony of the 12. Have you taken the testimony of the 12? Have you spoken with all twelve seen the so called pics or are you just taking what you heard (a rumor) and are accepting it without any personal knowledge.

Yes you are allowed to have an opinion, I would like to see at what point you saw something that based your opinion.

I'm just saying. I don't know, honestly don't need to know but if it is true I hope some folks shake themselves and find absolute truth in all this.

Ok you don't know and don't need to know yet you are taking the supposed word of 12 and so called pics.


OK again I find it so funny that I find myself defending someone I don't really know. I guess to me it is more no willing to find someone guilty on a bunch of rumors. And after reading the comments about the 12 and the pics and the three years it throws more questions in my mind than it does clear things up.