Bible Guy

[pastorables]

You know, something just occurred to me...

I have been posting on 2 separate threads here recently that are seemingly completely unrelated to each other. But then ... it clicked:

I commented that we are too quick to take offense, as evindenced by the recent comments made by Obama (not one of my favorite people, mind you), comparing his poor bowling score to the Special Olympics. I suggested that he be cut a little slack. He did not make the comment to be cruel or hurtful, rather he was making fun of himself, and meant the comment to be in light humor. But I was called to the carpet by virtually everyone else that I was dead wrong. We can't have people making fun of stuff in that way. We can't cut people any slack. He MUST apologize for his words!! We must be dogmatic!!!!

Then, I made a suggestion as to the possibility that some seemingly inocuous activity might be better avoided, and BAM!!! I am again put in my place for being too dogmatic. That because there is no intent to do these things (karate, yoga, christmas trees, etc.) with any pagan worship in mind, they are therefore fair game.

Then there are attempts to brand me a hypocrite, by folks trying to see if I use the word "Monday."

I am seeing a double standard here myself. If we're doing things, it's okay as long as we consider that our intent is okay. But if someone does something that we don't like (in this case, Obama) regardless of his intent, he is out of line and must make things right.

Hmmm....

Are you somehow equating an offense to challenged children with karate, etc? I don't understand. The scripture is clear that things which flow from the lips are from the heart. I can't see your comparison here of a heart matter with a physical activity.

To practice karate for self defense or sport doesn't require that we compromise our holiness. By the same, to offend one of God's little ones immediately brings one's holiness under scrutiny.

Sincerely,
pa

[bibleguy]

I'm equating that no offense was intended on Obama's part, but since his handlers knew that someone might be offended anyway, they made sure he apologized, and many here felt that he should have done so, disregarding Obama's intent. Yes, from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks, and Obama did make a casual comment in jest, but any honest evaluation of the event would conclude that he in no wise intended to hurt or offend anyone.

But we Christians often justify our own actions by claiming that our intentions are good. (We've discussed this before...) Christmas trees, once pagan talismans, are now OK since we just have them for decoration. Easter eggs and bunnies, carry-overs from the pagan celebration of the gods of fertility, are just "good, clean fun." Yoga, a system which had for its original purpose the tapping into the peace and power within has been sterilized, and is now "stretching exercises." Since our intentions are not evil, per se, therefore our actions are justifiable.

Obama's intentions are irrelevant, so his actions are offensive. But our intentions are relevant, so our actions are acceptable.

[Brian]

Certainly God should be involved in every aspect of the believer's life. We are told to be thankful in everything (1 Thess. 5:18). If you bought a car, you might be thanking God, while at the same time He's thinking, "You never asked me if you should buy that one or not."

God expressed His will in so many facets of our lives in the O.T. While we are not bound by the law today, to assume that God has no opinion in some matters is to deny the simple fact that we, being made in His image, have opinions about absolutely EVERYTHING: whether the store smells good, whether the line is moving too slow, whether the car looks pretty, whether that person is too fat, too skinny, too ugly, too proud, whether the school is doing a good job, or the president, or if the streets are well maintained, or the what type of music is appealing... EVERYTHING.

God showed Himself to be likewise throughout the Scriptures, leaving nothing out.

As to the soap, whether one brand or another, God was a big fan of hygiene. Does He care whether we use anti-bacterial or not? I imagine He knows the answer to the debate as to whether anti-bacterial soap helps cause super-resistant bacteria or not, and therefore He probably does care one way or another.

David said, "All my ways are before thee" (Psa. 119:168).

When my wife asks me which dress she should wear, the red or the blue, I may prefer one or the other, or honestly be neutral. She, knowing that I COULD have an opinion might ask me what it is. Today's Christian quickly assumes that God doesn't care about most things, so we presume to do whatever we want. BUT, WE HAVE AN OPINION about what we wear, what we listen to, what we watch, what we drive, where we live, right? Why do we presume that God does not?

He may not care one way or another... but He MIGHT. Shouldn't we put it before Him? Shouldn't we consider that He might have a will for our lives that is more than merely for us to get saved? There is the good and acceptable will, and perfect will of God.

That is not to say you need to pray to make sure that it's okay to tie your shoes. (But I bet God thinks it's a good idea that you do, as the Scripture says, “Then shalt thou walk in thy way safely, and thy foot shall not stumble” - Proverbs 3:23)

hey bibleguy, I have to say that I agree with quite abit of what you had to say about needing to take things to the Lord in prayer. I hope I didn't come across as God not "caring" as in "hey I dont give a hoot what ya do just leave me alone",..... of course God cares about the decisions of His children and I believe that He desires nothing but the best for us, a being He created in His own image and likeness. I think you get what I am talking about though bibleguy. Like Pastor Gary noticed that you slipped the "christian stripclub or dancer or whatever". I think you know that we here, me specifically that I am not talking about no holds bard open rebellion breaking real life sin and commandments of God. thats not at all what we are dealing with here. we are dealing with UNKNOWN things that are not laid out specifically in the scriptures. Sure the Spirit of God can lead us to all truth, and He does. however there are those things that are not so iron clad.
Now, can God lead us accounding to His will in all those matters that we have all been talking about? OF COURSE He can, and I believe would, if we were to bring them to Him. The problem for me comes with the 'requirement" that you might he hinting at for everyone to come to the same conclusions that you have in those areas. Obviously we all don't. but does that mean that one of us is right and one in open rebellion? I wouldn't make that leap. can you?

Brian

[Brian]

You know, something just occurred to me...

I have been posting on 2 separate threads here recently that are seemingly completely unrelated to each other. But then ... it clicked:

I commented that we are too quick to take offense, as evindenced by the recent comments made by Obama (not one of my favorite people, mind you), comparing his poor bowling score to the Special Olympics. I suggested that he be cut a little slack. He did not make the comment to be cruel or hurtful, rather he was making fun of himself, and meant the comment to be in light humor. But I was called to the carpet by virtually everyone else that I was dead wrong. We can't have people making fun of stuff in that way. We can't cut people any slack. He MUST apologize for his words!! We must be dogmatic!!!!

Then, I made a suggestion as to the possibility that some seemingly inocuous activity might be better avoided, and BAM!!! I am again put in my place for being too dogmatic. That because there is no intent to do these things (karate, yoga, christmas trees, etc.) with any pagan worship in mind, they are therefore fair game.

Then there are attempts to brand me a hypocrite, by folks trying to see if I use the word "Monday."

I am seeing a double standard here myself. If we're doing things, it's okay as long as we consider that our intent is okay. But if someone does something that we don't like (in this case, Obama) regardless of his intent, he is out of line and must make things right.

Hmmm....

Ya know bibleguy, I was going to post in that thread and you may be surprised to know that I would agree with you 100% in that case. Sorry I didn't come to your backup in the thread I don't have a child in the special olympics but I do have a 16yr old son with cerebral palsy, listed as sever profoundly disabled. He is in a wheelchair whenever is is not in his bed. I mean complete and utterly dependant on others for every single thing is his life. We have had plenty of stairs and weird looks. And ever since i have a special place in my heart for people with disabilities. I mean seriously. I tear up when I see them win or just smile. It's amazing! I really love them. But I can honestly say that I have said the exact phrase before, probably many times.
Not saying that everyone should feel that way, but I too think it was a foolhearty slip of the tongue.

[bibleguy]

Thanks for the well-put comments Brian. I'm sure that your son is a blessing in so very many ways, and that his disabilities melt away so often when you look at him. In that, you may be able to better relate to our dear heavenly Father as He looks beyond our spiritual handicaps. God bless you and your family.

[Pastor Gary]

“Jesus was not killed by atheism and anarchy. He was brought down by law and order allied with religion, which is always a deadly mix. Beware those who claim to know the mind of God and who are prepared to use force, if necessary, to make others conform. Beware those who cannot tell God’s will from their own. Temple police are always a bad sign. When chaplains start wearing guns and hanging out at the sheriff's office, watch out. Someone is about to have no king but Caesar.”

Barbara Brown Taylor, A Deadly Mix

[one love]

“Jesus was not killed by atheism and anarchy. He was brought down by law and order allied with religion, which is always a deadly mix. Beware those who claim to know the mind of God and who are prepared to use force, if necessary, to make others conform. Beware those who cannot tell God’s will from their own. Temple police are always a bad sign. When chaplains start wearing guns and hanging out at the sheriff's office, watch out. Someone is about to have no king but Caesar.”

Barbara Brown Taylor, A Deadly Mix

Yeah but some disagree with others views and then just call it "religion or law" to diminish there point and justify there belief.
Not saying this to anyone directly but just playing the advocate.

[cndlou]

Some churches had "smoke breaks" 60 years ago.

And some churches still have "smoke breaks" today.... the one just down the road from my house does each and every Sunday morning....

[bibleguy]

Some churches had "smoke breaks" 60 years ago.

And some churches still have "smoke breaks" today.... the one just down the road from my house does each and every Sunday morning....

Not that smokers are going to hell. Just that Paul exhorted us "not to be brought under the power of any." I think that some J2ers have me confused with someone who is quick to judge someone and send them out of the camp and off to hell. Not at all. But I am willing to “warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among [ourselves], and to all men. Rejoice evermore. Pray without ceasing. In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning [us]. Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. Abstain from all appearance of evil."

And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Brethren, pray for me. (1 Thess 5:14-25).

[MacUser]

Sorry.... missed a lot and just skimming over... but it's like trying to pin the opinion tail on the donkey blindfolded.


Mat 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
Mat 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
Mat 15:20 These are the things which defile a man:

[cndlou]

Please don't get me wrong... I don't agree (in the slightest way) with "smoke breaks"... I just think it is weird to have "smoke breaks" at church... maybe we should have a manditory "break time" for everyone like you would at work... I personally find it a sin to smoke...notice I said personally... I can't breath around it...even if it is just on someones clothes...

[kurt73]

I know in my own personal walk with Christ the more I strive to get closer to Him the more the world becomes less important to me. I find myself giving up thinks that I use to hold highly or do on a regular basis. Maybe this is what is going on with bibleguy...........

[Brian]

I know in my own personal walk with Christ the more I strive to get closer to Him the more the world becomes less important to me. I find myself giving up thinks that I use to hold highly or do on a regular basis. Maybe this is what is going on with bibleguy...........

Quite possibly kurt. I know that there was a time when I use to listen exclusively to christian music. I didn't even know what the "hit" songs were on the radio for several years! people would say "huh? you never heard that song? Its like played 1000 times a day." LOL

I guess it's what we all choose to exspose ourself to. I'm not saying this is wrong because to be consumed with the Lord and spiritual things SHOULD be a top priority for the believer. And when someone is in that kind of mindset they look at the rest of the world and wonder how in the heck people wouldn't want to act just like us!

This is how I like to look at things. (and please don't think I mean "everything" is ok because ultamitly God made everything) but everything the devil, pagons, eastern mystics, ect. ect. was stolen from God to begin with. Pagans used the egg to symbolise some fertility goddess, whatever. The egg belongs to God!!!! Its HIS creation! If some idiot took it and used it in the pagan ritual then blah blah whatever whatever. It's an egg people! If i hide it my my yard and let my kid go look for it I am NOT enguaging in pagan god worship. Thats just ridiculous!!

But hey thats just me.

Oh, on the topic of stealing......the devil is said to be the father of lies, to steal, kill, and destroy. That stealing factor is not like honding up the five and dime around the corner it's about stealing life, truth, happiness, love , and all else that a thief steals. he steals the truth of God and corrupts it with lies. he steals the beauty of Gods handywork and currupts it with servitude to some idiocy of a pagan god or some mess. Ridiculous!

Ok, I'm done