I have had enough of New Ageish Worship music.

[dolfan]

This quote supposedly verbatim from a column I read years ago by Terry Mattingly, and now I cannot find it, but nonetheless:

When asked the difference between "hymns" and "praise choruses" a farmer explained to his wife:"It's like this, if I were to say to you, "Martha, the cows are in the corn,' that would be a hymn. If, on the other hand, I was to say to you, ‘Martha, Martha, Martha, O Martha, MARTHA, MARTHA, the cows, the big cows, the brown cows, the black cows, the white cows, the black and white cows, the COWS, COWS, COWS, are in the corn,' that would be a praise chorus."

[MrDanger]

Perhaps too thre is a tendancy to look and the "song service" (as it used to be called) as "Worship" and not much more else.

Why is being attentive to a preacher NOT worship?
Why is offerig not Worship?
Why is Bible study NOT worship?
Why is my care for those I know who are suffering not worship?
Why is fellowship not worship?

In my role at Roberts Tabernacle on Sundays, that is one of the things I try to push at the beginning of the worship service. Our life is a worship.

[Mike Vande]

Do you consider a "worship/concert" by HUL and the like to be the same as a weekly gathering of the church? I don't. I downplay show-biz and hype in my weekly meetings (Excellence? Sure. Showbiz? Not so much.) but I can go out and enjoy a worship-tainment event with hazers, intelligent lights and set design as a ticketed event/concert... but the two are not the same to me.

Every now and again, some of the local churches get together for a group worship session. KC being the size it is, we have some fairly large and well-to-do groups, both denominational and otherwise, and they have pretty decent musicians to work with, especially when they are pooled.

I attended one of those, and I knew most of the folks on the platform, well enough to know they take worship seriously, and don't do things like that just to play in front of folks. It was free, and everyone on the platform was a volunteer, so money wasn't an issue. They didn't have a major lighting grid, no lazers, no real glitz to speak of. It was just a really well-organized, well-rehearsed group of pretty talented and accomplished musicians & vocalists, giving praise to the Lord in the "modern way," i.e., with fairly current tunes, all of which were were sung at everybody there's church on any given Sunday. There weren't any repetitive choruses. There was no spoken appeal from the platform to "be free in the Spirit". There was no exhortation to dance, shout, clap , stomp, howl, wiggle, jiggle, jump, thump or even sing unto the Glory Of God. It was just a bunch of very talented folks enthusiastically and joyfully performing praise and worship tunes for a group of Christians.

It really didn't move me a bit.

I didn't sense any real annointing, no spiritual gifts were evidenced, and as far as I remember, no altar call was given or answered. It was great "worship-tainment"(I like that one, Gary), and a better use of my evening than vegetating in front of the tube at home. But I have to say I was a little disappointed.

When I was playing out for Christians, the success of a meeting like that was gauged by God showing up in some noticeable way or not.

But maybe it was just me...

[Dr. Ron]

Personally i like Great Speckled Bird,.....

[dalebert]

Personally i like Great Speckled Bird,.....

or "Free Bird"

[soulsearcher]

Personally i like Great Speckled Bird,.....

What a beautiful thought.

[RamboPreacher]

Personally i like Great Speckled Bird,.....

What a beautiful thought.

yea, making me hungry too.

[Full Quiver]

This is actually a really good topic that may be one of the most serious ones we have discussed in a while.

I totally agree with Gerald that some of the new stuff is so void. I have heard songs and even entire CD's that NEVER mentioned the name of Jesus or any of His Biblical names such as Counselor or Emmanuel. It was sickening to me and never touched my spirit. It's like reading a book about people but you don't know if they are male or female. The songs can be applied to just about anyone including one's husband/boyfriend or wife/girlfriend, etc.

I too love many of the old hymns and they certainly deserve a place in our personal and corporate P&W. Some of these are extremely deep and rich in truth. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God and many of these songs can be attributed to stirring faith in the lost and leading them to a saving knowledge of Christ. I still sing many of these today such as Victory in Jesus.

On the other hand many of the hymns that we have sung are more about promoting "us" and not the Lord and His work. These songs have aided and abetted in the promotion of haughty feelings among religious groups, denom.'s, etc. One such example is "I'm on the battlefield". Notice the self promotion? This type song worships the creature more than the creator but when sung stirs all sorts of feelings, affections, emotions among the congregation. It's a spirit but what type of spirit? You can probably think of many, many more.

Praise and Worship are two totally different things. We are to praise God and worship God. We could get real deep into the Word here and define these two acts but I'm not sure everyone is interested. Songs should praise the Lord and never the creation though many do. I can't see how God accepts this. We always want to be blessed but never consider that the Lord wants to be blessed as well. We have plenty of Biblical assurance that we will be blessed but can He rely upon us to bless Him continually? The OT teaches us that He loads us down with benefits and that the blessings He has promised will overtake us. Have we ever been guilty of loading down the Lord with blessings? Do we ever take him by surprise or try to at least by "overtaking" Him with blessings?

[Rob]

As I have read this thread, two things have accured to me. First, my dad told me years ago, when God does a new thing, because to not throw the baby out with the bath water". We try, probably don't do as good of a job as we should of mixing the old with the new. But it sounds like Gerald, that you are totally wanting to disregard some of the new songs, I'm hoping that I have misunderstood what you are say. Two songs that I think have a deep theological meaning are "Revelation Song" and a Hillsong song of "Shout to the Lord".

Don't throw the baby (the good new stuff) out with the bath water.

[Gerald Creasy]

As I have read this thread, two things have accured to me. First, my dad told me years ago, when God does a new thing, because to not throw the baby out with the bath water". We try, probably don't do as good of a job as we should of mixing the old with the new. But it sounds like Gerald, that you are totally wanting to disregard some of the new songs, I'm hoping that I have misunderstood what you are say. Two songs that I think have a deep theological meaning are "Revelation Song" and a Hillsong song of "Shout to the Lord".

Don't throw the baby (the good new stuff) out with the bath water.

IF you have read this thread and it sounds to you that I "totally want to disregard some of the new songs" then I question your reading comprehension skills.

I totally want to disregard ALL of the new songs that are vapid, insipid or make me feel uncomfortable with their expressions of deep intimate love to a male figure unidentified but assumed.

When Our performance as ministers, teachers or song writers goes into a slump it does not necesarrily mean God is doing a new thing (no matter what daddy said).

It could mean...and in the case of MOST of the New music....a DUMBING DOWN.


If one did not have the Bible and tried to reconstruct it from some of the Old Hymns you would get a FAIR idea of the Gospel message.

BUt if you try to do that with SOME of the New stuff you get a Halllmark card. A poorly written and highly repetative Hallmark card.


"Shout to the Lord" is Okay. It is a fair approximation of incorporating Psalm type worship but fails I think with the reference to "The Promise I have in You"

With Pentecostalism becomming Word of Faiths Whore, i'm sure that promise involves money somehow.

[JohnDB]

My two cents

Worship is about the congregation's opportunity to worship together as a group while being led by a few who are supposed to know how.

It isn't about performances...it is all about the congregation and giving them the opportunity for worship.

That doesn't mean that it has to be dry and boring. Some like different kinds of music as God gives them predelection to do so...so make opportunities for everyone (if you have the decision making capability) All of us love to sing happy songs celebrating our faith...crying at church isn't good all the time...especially when God is so good to us so much of the time. This does mean that songs need to be theologically correct. (Jesus is my boyfriend ain't)

Some can only carry a tune if they are handing out hymnals but they have other talents. LET THEM USE THEM!!!

Jesus beat the money changers for a reason. He hated the system that created them...it wasn't the one that He set up. People love bringing gifts to God that they made with great care by their own hands to a loving God. AND GOD WANTS THEM!!! Keeping them out and away from giving their gifts is gonna get leaders beat by Jesus again.

[DeWayneTN]

Not to be contrary (too late), but I have never ever thought of money or prosperity when singing "nothing compares to the promise I have in You" and I think I've sang "Shout at the Lord" about a million times.

[Gerald Creasy]

Not to be contrary (too late), but I have never ever thought of money or prosperity when singing "nothing compares to the promise I have in You" and I think I've sang "Shout at the Lord" about a million times.

There was context to the comment DeWayne. If you are in a church that constantly preaches about money increase and prosperity as a promise THEN when you sing about a promis what would you think of??

[dolfan]

Personally i like Great Speckled Bird,.....

or "Free Bird"

SKYNYRD!!! (You almost have to shout that when you hear that opening lick.)

[Pastor Bill]

Not to be contrary (too late), but I have never ever thought of money or prosperity when singing "nothing compares to the promise I have in You" and I think I've sang "Shout at the Lord" about a million times.

There was context to the comment DeWayne. If you are in a church that constantly preaches about money increase and prosperity as a promise THEN when you sing about a promis what would you think of??

That might be the problem Gerald, if that's the focus of the preaching and teaching, then it's going to come out in the worship as well. You may be complaining more about a symptom when the problem is deeper.

I will agree I have heard some new stuff that is all fluff, and I don't care for it, but I have also heard some with some meat to it, and some in between. I think the old hymns there were fluff songs as well, but they didn't pass the test of time as much (how many in the blue book have you never heard sung? how many never made it into the blue book?, etc.)

There is also the fact that some songs will touch one person different than someone else, Shout to the Lord is one we use alot, but like DeWayne, I haven't really ever thought of prosperity in that line, to me that's taking it a little out of context (which some prosperity ministries are pretty good at)

Gerald with as strongly as you feel against prosperity doctrine, why would this be such a big part of your home church? I don't think I'd stay, but I 'd find somewhere down the road that I am fed, and if you do, you might find the music fits you better as well.