Urge to Merge?

[Pastor Bill]

In order for there to be a true reuniting of our organizations, it would seem to me that the conditions or circumstances of the original split of '23, when a power hungry group of elders seized control of the leadership of the organization and ousted AJT on what later was proved to be unfounded charges, would have to be addressed.

You may say that that is old news. Maybe we could ask Robert White former GO of the COG if he feels that he was treated fairly when he was ousted in '96 over a book deal that some in high places didn't like.

I have never advocated or wanted independence but neither do I want to return to a bondage of politics and control that I believe God may be trying to deliver us from.

john

That is a very biased version of how the split took place, of course the accounts I have read probably had their biases as well.

[rough_rider]

In order for there to be a true reuniting of our organizations, it would seem to me that the conditions or circumstances of the original split of '23, when a power hungry group of elders seized control of the leadership of the organization and ousted AJT on what later was proved to be unfounded charges, would have to be addressed.

If any one were power hungry it was AJT.. At any rate, In the early 90's both groups got together and ask each other for forgiveness, so to rehash something that is dead and buried is silly to me...

[Mat]

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[MrDanger]

I know we in the COGOP had issued apologies for past division from the highest offices. Is the COG willing to, in writing, address issue and ask forgiveness also?

Or are people willing to do the Christ like thing and forgive even if not apologized to?

[rspastor]

I feel hesitant to respond to this subject because I recognize how difficult it would be to see this type of re-marriage of the two churches. But, I can't help but feel an excited anticipation at the possibility. It would be like being with someone you love after a long seperation.

I certainly believe God has raised up a different generation today that doesn't hold to the biases of yesterday. I don't believe a merger is right on the door step of the church...but it's on its way up the block!

Despite the difficulty that would be present I agree with a previous poster that God honors unity and sacrifice.

[Mat]

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[MrDanger]

MrDaniel

Okay, first it was McDanger and now it is MrDaniel.

I don't really believe that we have to re-marry our organizations. I see good and bad in it. I just don't think we need to hold our breath waiting for written apologies. Just forgive them as Bro. Tomlinson did. The other side is as someone stated earlier in the thread, it was my understanding there had been apologies on both sides offered during a joint meeting. That would be more than sufficient for me.

ps The quote button at the top of the post you want to quote. Then delete the extra you don't want is a simple way.

[Pastor Bill]

Actually Conn's book (the 1970s version, I don't have the updated one) was the one I was speaking of, and I didn't get that from it. I read it before I had any connection at all to the CoGoP, other than I had visited one in the town where my parent's lived, and knew that pastor was very close to the CoG pastor I knew and they worked together and had some joint services.

The impression the book gave me, is that some questions came up about the finances, AJT was asked to step down temporarily till the situation could be sorted out. Once things were sorted out, nothing was held against him, but there was a push to rethink the "Overseer for life" position, and someone else was put into that position. Disagreement over that decision seemed to be the official answer as to why the split occured.

Now I have talked to different people on both sides, and I know that it was not that simple, I have heard it blamed on the D&R disagreements, finances, political coop, all sorts of things. On the CoG side, very few members are even aware of the split, ministers have to know a little about the history to get licensed, and in all of that material, AJT is lifted up as a great asset to the church.

I have even had a lifelong CoGoP minister (at least 2nd generation) tell me that his research showed the CoGoP to be "the wrong ones". Myself, it's in the past, I wasn't personally involved, and those that were are probably not even living now. Appologies have been made on both sides, and everything should be just put behind us.

[Pastor Gary]

I say Amen and Hallelujah to a merger... Why? Because we know God responds positive to unity.

Unity at any cost? Let's make a list ofall the groups we can also merge with and have LOTS of unity!

"Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
Amos 3:3

[Mat]

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[justsam]

Realistically, I would assume that issues like the circumstances of the original split are pretty low on the priority list of those of our leaders who would like to see us rejoin the COG. Regardless of whether you are COG or COGOP, there should be little debate over the idea that the split was the result of a power struggle between AJT and the "elders". Church power struggles and splits are like divorces: there are no winners, only degrees of losing.

God Bless You- Sam Smith

[DeWayneTN]

Here are some of my personal conditions for the merger:

-I reserve the right to hang out in the foyer if an introduction, biography and accolades of a special speaker takes longer than 15 minutes.
-I will carry around a church flag towel that I could at any point soak in water and pop anyone who says, "so you folks finally wised up and came home!"
-If I hear a prayer during one of the services that sounds more like a monlogue, I reserve the right to applaud instead of saying "Amen."
-If I go to an event and can't find anyone I know or worth hanging around with, I'll start my own church in my garage (I already have stained glass there). Who's with me?
-All of us Tomlinson College graduates shall be given honorary doctorates from Lee University just to help us get an extra leg up in the our new surroundings.
-

[MrDanger]

Here are some of my personal conditions for the merger:

[list]-I reserve the right to hang out in the foyer if an introduction, biography and accolades of a special speaker takes longer than 15 minutes.

These are all great, but this one struck home with me. I can not stand introductions, biographies, or accolades given before someone speaks. Especially when you can see them with their fake modesty on the front row/already on stage while they are hearing the introduction their people prepared.

I don't care who you are. I don't care where you went to school. I don't care how many people were slain in the spirit the last time you walked through a group of people. JUST GET UP THERE AND PREACH!!!!!!!

[jdavis]

In order for there to be a true reuniting of our organizations, it would seem to me that the conditions or circumstances of the original split of '23, when a power hungry group of elders seized control of the leadership of the organization and ousted AJT on what later was proved to be unfounded charges, would have to be addressed.

You may say that that is old news. Maybe we could ask Robert White former GO of the COG if he feels that he was treated fairly when he was ousted in '96 over a book deal that some in high places didn't like.

I have never advocated or wanted independence but neither do I want to return to a bondage of politics and control that I believe God may be trying to deliver us from.

john

That is a very biased version of how the split took place, of course the accounts I have read probably had their biases as well.

As Mat pointed out, history pretty much indicates my condensed version is probably very close to the truth. I realize that my viewpoint is biased.
My grandmother sought God in prayer for herself and decided that AJT was no thief and in spite of the fact that her local church remained with the "elders" she was loyal to Brother Tomlinson. You are right about the people who were involved being dead now but when I was a kid growing up and in the first church I pastored there were many people I knew personally who had survived the split. I had COG faithful members tell me that they knew AJT did not embezzle funds but because of the local leadership going with the "elders" they had no choice but to follow.

Looking back on the situation I feel that AJT probably was wrong in not stepping down willingly and let time and truth vindicate him. Maybe the split could have been avoided had he been able to do that. Maybe if my grandmother had not followed the leadership of AJT I might be in the COG today instead of COGOP. But the fact of the matter is that they didn't. The fact of the matter is that over 5000 members and 300 ministers felt the same way and walked away forfeiting everything that had been accumulated for the preceding 20 years. My bias tells me that they had ample reason and evidence to stay loyal to the leadership of AJT.

I willingly admit that over the years and probably as a direct result of the split, we developed some cult-like tendancies and a big persecution complex but thank God we are coming out of it. We are getting our doctrine in line with solid biblical intrepretation and have streamlined our headquarters and mission ministry to where we have a sound presence in many areas of the world. I don't really care if our International offices get down to office space in a local church facility and the General Overseer pastoring to support his salary along with those in state offices doing the same. If that is the direction that God desires to lead us then so be it. What I am saying is that we don't need a large structure of pencil pushing preachers(how's that for alliteration?) whose main goal in life is to go to the next level in to organization, to lead us. If God is, and I believe he is delivering us from that, why go back into it?

john

Note*****My use of the term "elders" is in no way meant to be derogatory to the COG only to distinguish between the two groups. I have a great many friends and fellow pastors in the COG whom I respect deeply. Both of my children have degrees from Lee University and have respect for that institution. My only problem with the possibility of a merger with the COG is that it may not be God's best for us.

[Pastor Bill]

I understand, and I agree with you, no one that I know in the CoG looks at AJT as a thief. I think things got way out of hand 80-90 years ago, and some on both sides pushed it to get what they wanted while others on both sides just got taken along for the ride.

I can't say overall what is best, but I do like the unity we are seeing more now. myself I tend to lean toward merger being a good thing, because I did have to go through throwing away everything I had done in the CoG to get my license to start over in the CoGoP because the church God lead me to pastor had a different name over the door. I also know we are struggling for enough pastors in our area, while in the CoG there are ministers who would be glad to serve, but the only opportunity for them is to go down the street from another CoG and try to start a new work. At the time I took the church in Mt Sterling (CoGoP) I know of one pastor renting a building to start a CoG just blocks from another CoG, with at least 5 other larger CoGs in the town.

Even if there is not a full merger, working closer together seems like it would be very beneficial to work together more, maybe begin to recognize one another's licenses and work together more in the in between Cleveland and local churches, both of which seem to be working together fairly well where appropriate.