Political coup in TCOG?

[one love]

IF I were a betting man, I'd lay money on it that the poster (whose demeanor I admire, btw) is known on UTR as Fred Sanford.

Very Good Chris. Thank you for the complement. Yes Im a pastor in TCOG AKA Fred Sanford. I wanted to post a point that I have not on any forumn acted in the manner that TCOG is described as being. I love each of you. But I notice as soon as it was assumed I was TCOG notice the way the way things were spoken. I was not trying to hide who I was at all. Stevenson of all surely had to know
Yes Brother Murray preached many One fold messages yet not after he was appointed and even right prior to that. SO I guess he was a cultic demon until he became overseer. Obviously this is a joke, so I hope the point has been made to all's understanding.

OUTED AS A TCOG OPERATIVE!!!

Good call, because their posting styles are similar. Especially the use of the word Brother.

This is just so funny to me. OUTED as if I have a plague. Oh no what to do Im so scared Unreal. Beaver here it is you have something against TCOG in your heart. I have nothing against those in COGOP. I cutt teeth in General Headquarters, as my Dad worked there with Brother Murray, Brother Pruitt, Brother Hawkins, Brother Griffin and Brother M.A. Tomlinson and many others. When I made mention to this prior I knew it gave me away. I had no intentions Of hiding. Yet I came to this forum for the same reason as others to have fellowship and Biblical debate with Brothers and sisters from all over. But being a TCOG member I felt I would be looked at badly and that has been proven. Not by all, nor does it bother me

So now your saying you don't know what they teach? Cuz apparently you don't and you assumed that they believed similiar to us. They don't!

No im saying you dont know how we teach. Are you going to say that COGOP, COG, used to teach salvation any other way then repentance? Show me. Show me where we teach otherwise as well. Take away jewelry , divorce and remmariage and exclusivity, what then is the MAJOR differences. IN OUR BASIC BIBLE BELIEFS? Im also speaking in comparison with other denominations. Please no more qoutes of what you heard or assume only what we actually teach. As I said I know there are those that are out there in all organizations.
PLain english here we believe ALL believers of Christ will be gathered together in one fold. Not leaving any out including all the true faithful saints. Again I feel God can unite us just as animals. If you feel all these 40 plus thousand doctrines are an example of unity, I disagree. But that is ok as well. I really did not post on this thread to debate our doctrine though im glad to. I commented on the fact that TCOG were being referenced as Demonic, Cults, ETC which again means most of you were cultic as was most of your leaders just prior to 1990. Sorry I find that just so silly. So if you would like to blast me out the water go for it. But I still will not insult you simply because we dis -agree.

[EagerBeaver]

Beaver here it is you have something against TCOG in your heart.

I will not deny that.

In fact I will say I have something against TCOG and every other cult which serves to divide the body of Christ rather than unite it.

In your preferred Bible translation: ""Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." --Romans 16:17, KJV

In PLAIN ENGLISH: "One final word of counsel, friends. Keep a sharp eye out for those who take bits and pieces of the teaching that you learned and then use them to make trouble. Give these people a wide berth. They have no intention of living for our Master Christ. They're only in this for what they can get out of it, and aren't above using pious sweet talk to dupe unsuspecting innocents." --Romans 16:17, The Message

Your organization, your "church," has been marked since Day 1, Brother.

It's a combination of Satanic deception and mental incompetence and idiocy to remain with an organization that continues to split, break apart before everyone's eyes and somehow expect to carry on as the "true church" after all the madness. Where is the Lord in all this?

In my heart of hearts I hope and pray that the blinders of deception are removed from the eyes of those who cause division, not just in TCOG but any church.

[Faith rider]

There were billboards in North Carolina slamming the "concerned" Yes they had a right to be concerned.

I've been living in NC for over 50 years, and I haven't seen any bill borads like that, where were they?

[TW]

one love, I have; as is my habit, because I have no history with any of the COG branches; followed this thread without comment or involvement. However, at this juncture I feel that I might provide some meaningful observations and corrections. I have been a member of this board for three years now, and from the recurring topic that you raised I can tell from a real outsiders viewpoint that there seems to be anger and hurt on both sides of the schism. There are, without a doubt, those in both camps that view the other as being in error and thus "apostate" or cultic, as the case may be. In my own view both words are thrown around without regard to their true meanings, but that is for another thread. Now to address some of your comments directly:

Take away jewelry , divorce and remmariage and exclusivity, what then is the MAJOR differences.

That's four very major differences, remove those four and you have made significant changes to a denomination's basic doctrines.

I commented on the fact that TCOG were being referenced as Demonic, Cults, ETC which again means most of you were cultic as was most of your leaders just prior to 1990.

In the three years that I have been coming to this board I have seen numerous post acknowledging that prior to that time COGOP was cultic in their teaching, however as God revealed more light and understanding to them they chose to change in order to follow God more closely. Most that post on this board are COGOP, and I have never heard any of them say that there was not error in the early church (the denomination).

Now I ask you to look at your own denomination, and the fragmentation that has occurred within the last year, and tell me all is well.

You came to a site that you knew beforehand was heavily COGOP, and while you did not overtly attack the COGOP, you "baited" the members of the board until you elicited the response that you wanted, then you could say: "Your just being hateful because I'm TCOG."

That is how it looks to a real outsider.


TW

[one love]

There were billboards in North Carolina slamming the "concerned" Yes they had a right to be concerned.

I've been living in NC for over 50 years, and I haven't seen any bill borads like that, where were they?

Greensboro


Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:53 pm Subject:

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Quote:
Beaver here it is you have something against TCOG in your heart.


I

will not deny that.

In fact I will say I have something against TCOG and every other cult which serves to divide the body of Christ rather than unite it.

I will pray for you. Next you are dividing here not me. You are placing a wedge between us for no apparent reason.



Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 12:30 am Subject:

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one love, I have; as is my habit, because I have no history with any of the COG branches; followed this thread without comment or involvement. However, at this juncture I feel that I might provide some meaningful observations and corrections. I have been a member of this board for three years now, and from the recurring topic that you raised I can tell from a real outsiders viewpoint that there seems to be anger and hurt on both sides of the schism. There are, without a doubt, those in both camps that view the other as being in error and thus "apostate" or cultic, as the case may be. In my own view both words are thrown around without regard to their true meanings, but that is for another thread. Now to address some of your comments directly:

Quote:
Take away jewelry , divorce and remmariage and exclusivity, what then is the MAJOR differences.

That's four very major differences, remove those four and you have made significant changes to a denomination's basic doctrines.

Pause- I thought no doctrinal changes were made BY Brother Murray?

You came to a site that you knew beforehand was heavily COGOP, and while you did not overtly attack the COGOP, you "baited" the members of the board until you elicited the response that you wanted, then you could say: "Your just being hateful because I'm TCOG."

Ok I did no such thing. Read all my post on this forum. I came here to fellowship with COGOP people because I have many friends in COGOP. I love to talk bible. I jumped in this conversation because of the blatant disrespect made toward those in TCOG. Calling people demonic, stupid, cults and etc are very Blatant. I simply posted that I felt nobody that is a christian should insult people that way. I also said I would have responded the same way if they insulted baptist saints. The Bible says guard your conversation. I still have seen nothing but extreme dislike for TCOG. If you do not want me here I will leave. I would rather not. I cant figure out why people of different views cant talk with respect. I have yet to insult anyone here but im in the wrong. That does not even begin to make any logic. In reality you in COGOP have been called demonic, that does not bother you, when did that demon come out
Why does it bother anyone you wanted change and you got it. SO the ones you didnt agree wtih and wanted to still preach the same doctrine are not there. The first thing I hear on here when someone references TCOG is they are Judgemental. Yet Im the one being judged over and over. I have not judged any of you, Im still regarding you as my Brothers and Sisters.

Stevenson,
Have I ever judged you or shown you disrespect? Anyone else here that knows me, I ask the same.

Let me add this. This conversation is the last thing I desired and still do. I am not here to prove any point or grind any axe. Nothing of the sort at all

[Poimen]

Beaver here it is you have something against TCOG in your heart.

I will not deny that.

In fact I will say I have something against TCOG and every other cult which serves to divide the body of Christ rather than unite it.

Then you have something against every single group or fellowship which calls itself a part of or the exclusive Christian church. To the degree that any church/group distinguishes itself from others it denominates itself from the whole. That includes pretty much everybody

Will you now permit you disagreement with TCOG to foster yet further division?

[EagerBeaver]

Beaver here it is you have something against TCOG in your heart.

I will not deny that.

In fact I will say I have something against TCOG and every other cult which serves to divide the body of Christ rather than unite it.

Then you have something against every single group or fellowship which calls itself a part of or the exclusive Christian church. To the degree that any church/group distinguishes itself from others it denominates itself from thew whole.

Will you now permit you disagreance with TCOG to foster yet further division?

My point in saying above quoted statement was to say that anyone who promotes exclusivity of their church as being the only body of Christ, is fostering division instead of creating harmony. Totally and completely different than different denominations having been created because of different Biblical interpretations.

[one love]

Beaver here it is you have something against TCOG in your heart.

I will not deny that.

In fact I will say I have something against TCOG and every other cult which serves to divide the body of Christ rather than unite it.

Then you have something against every single group or fellowship which calls itself a part of or the exclusive Christian church. To the degree that any church/group distinguishes itself from others it denominates itself from thew whole.

Will you now permit you disagreance with TCOG to foster yet further division?

My point in saying above quoted statement was to say that anyone who promotes exclusivity of their church as being the only body of Christ, is fostering division instead of creating harmony. Totally and completely different than different denominations having been created because of different Biblical interpretations.

I understand what you mean. The same could be said about Christians in general because we feel only salvation through christ will get you into heaven. Now I feel you will be in the rapture with me if you are saved at the time. Im including you. If you die and are saved you are heaven bound. IN one sense "exclusivity" can be "inclusive" because the doctrine it self says we will not be divided at all but united. You should look at it from that stand point.

[Pastor Gary]

I understand what you mean. The same could be said about Christians in general because we feel only salvation through christ will get you into heaven. Now I feel you will be in the rapture with me if you are saved at the time. Im including you*. If you die and are saved you are heaven bound. IN one sense "exclusivity" can be "inclusive" because the doctrine it self says we will not be divided at all but united. You should look at it from that stand point.

* Assuming you abandon the group to which you belong and retake the covenant and become a member of my group.

[one love]

I understand what you mean. The same could be said about Christians in general because we feel only salvation through christ will get you into heaven. Now I feel you will be in the rapture with me if you are saved at the time. Im including you*. If you die and are saved you are heaven bound. IN one sense "exclusivity" can be "inclusive" because the doctrine it self says we will not be divided at all but united. You should look at it from that stand point.

* Assuming you abandon the group to which you belong and retake the covenant and become a member of my group.

Ah Man Brother Gary you got me. If I could get rid of this demon I may have been prepared for that one.

[TW]

You came to a site that you knew beforehand was heavily COGOP, and while you did not overtly attack the COGOP, you "baited" the members of the board until you elicited the response that you wanted, then you could say: "Your just being hateful because I'm TCOG."

Ok I did no such thing. Read all my post on this forum. I came here to fellowship with COGOP people because I have many friends in COGOP. I love to talk bible. I jumped in this conversation because of the blatant disrespect made toward those in TCOG. Calling people demonic, stupid, cults and etc are very Blatant. I simply posted that I felt nobody that is a christian should insult people that way. I also said I would have responded the same way if they insulted baptist saints.

Yes, you did do such a thing.

But being a TCOG member I felt I would be looked at badly and that has been proven.

I have reread all your post, If what you say is true your first post referring to disrespect should have made your point. You however continued with:

I saw your post on UTR and your the one that seems to be bad mouthing. I havent heard any from TCOG bad mouth anyone on that site. But you do where ever you go.

I just think it is interesting the anger so many have agianst this organization.

SO in essence I see those who love the change have a bad taste for TCOG because they are a reminder of there past theology.

Again the only insulting im seeing is some here against TCOG.

Back to the point of my post was that I see many COGOP people being very hateful to those in TCOG.

While you may have mixed these morsels with an abundant supply of fish oil, you still chummed the waters with these tid-bits in order to get the sharks circling.

You came into this claiming to be an outsider, which is a deception (read as a lie), and set about validating your preconception of how you would be received. I will grant you that you are good, but not that good.


TW

[Faith rider]

[quote="one love"There were billboards in North Carolina slamming the "concerned" Yes they had a right to be concerned.


I've been living in NC for over 50 years, and I haven't seen any bill borads like that, where were they?[

Greensboro


Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:53 pm Subject:

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Where in Greensboro NC ?
Did you see it with your own eyes? Do you have a picture of it? Who paid to have it put up?
Enquiring minds would like to know.

[stevenson]

I thought no doctrinal changes were made BY Brother Murray?

Actually Murray doesn't have the authority. The Doctrine & Polity board makes suggestions and then the GA votes on those suggestions.

TW,you are very wise! I couldn't of said it any better! Thank you!

[one love]

You came to a site that you knew beforehand was heavily COGOP, and while you did not overtly attack the COGOP, you "baited" the members of the board until you elicited the response that you wanted, then you could say: "Your just being hateful because I'm TCOG."

Ok I did no such thing. Read all my post on this forum. I came here to fellowship with COGOP people because I have many friends in COGOP. I love to talk bible. I jumped in this conversation because of the blatant disrespect made toward those in TCOG. Calling people demonic, stupid, cults and etc are very Blatant. I simply posted that I felt nobody that is a christian should insult people that way. I also said I would have responded the same way if they insulted baptist saints.

Yes, you did do such a thing.

But being a TCOG member I felt I would be looked at badly and that has been proven.

I have reread all your post, If what you say is true your first post referring to disrespect should have made your point. You however continued with:

I saw your post on UTR and your the one that seems to be bad mouthing. I havent heard any from TCOG bad mouth anyone on that site. But you do where ever you go.

I just think it is interesting the anger so many have agianst this organization.

SO in essence I see those who love the change have a bad taste for TCOG because they are a reminder of there past theology.

Again the only insulting im seeing is some here against TCOG.

Back to the point of my post was that I see many COGOP people being very hateful to those in TCOG.

While you may have mixed these morsels with an abundant supply of fish oil, you still chummed the waters with these tid-bits in order to get the sharks circling.

You came into this claiming to be an outsider, which is a deception (read as a lie), and set about validating your preconception of how you would be received. I will grant you that you are good, but not that good.


TW

Friend I posted way before this. This is based on the one thread. I also posted that based on the hateful accusations I saw to be un christ like. I never decieved anyone. I said from an outsider. Correct? This is a prodominent COGOP site I am an outsider. If I said im a member of TCOG this is wrong, I would of got more harsh treatment. When I said read all my post you missed the mark. I was refering to the post made on this whole site, from "is there doctrine in the house"
I started a thread who is the God of the old testmament. SHow me where I have baited anyone in that. When you insult someone it is wrong, I was making a point as an outsider and said I never said I was TCOG, yet I also said I never said I was not.

You came into this claiming to be an outsider, which is a deception (read as a lie), and set about validating your preconception of how you would be received. I will grant you that you are good, but not that good.

I never decieved anyone. I came here to fellowship. It was proven there is dislike and hurt here against TCOG and on both sides. The dividing factor is Im not hurt by anyone in COGOP and I love them and actually will be preaching (lord willing) at one soon. I was asked and I have no problem doing that. You do not know me. I came here with the best of intentions. No deception, fraud or any axe ot grind. I chose not to say Im a pastor of TCOG in the begining because I wanted to debate, fellowship and have a good time with all that are here. AOG, COG, COGOP, TCOG etc.
I have been to poimen's forum and he has all denomination there I have never treated them badly. But Im sorry I will not sit by and watch people say hateful lies about many good people for no reason. IF YOU SAID A CATHOLIC IS DEMONS. I WILL SAY YOU ARE SPEAKING HATEFUL AND ARE EXCLUDING THEM FOR WHAT REASON. Why since we are TCOG does it seem we have no feelings. You claim we say you are not saved but post the oppisite and claim in essence we are not. I really dont understand. Jesus taught love, I base my life on him. He also got angry when the temple was being used for wrong purposes, I feel making a stand for your convictions is good as well. But passing judgement on some who you dont know, then claim they are judgemental is hypocrisy.
If i did post here COGOP are all devils, liars , thieves etc would you not respond and say how can you say such things? Instead it is ok because it is TCOG getting attacked.
I have extensive knowledge about many things I have been asked to post it all. I will not, why would I? Just to anger more people and cause more division? I know there are corrupt people in TCOG as well.

Here is the overall fact. If by me saying I feel it is wrong to insult people for any reason. Im sorry I can not apologize for that. It is truth. If anyone here felt I was baiting them to argue, Im sorry. If any was hurt by my post im sorry. None of these were ever my intent. I truly love you all. If that does not cut it, that is between you and the LORD.

I noticed there were discussions her that go into to deep thought and different Ideas are passed around and debated. THAT IS THE ONLY REASON I CAME HERE. I am not a liar and will not stand her allow anyone to call me such. Im not some idot mindless robot that does not know Bible, nor am I a follower of man. I also own a very good buisness with many employees, so if you feel I am a backwoods precha who tinks ya all r bunch of hell bound yungins who need a reel god..... You are so wrong about me. I sure hope this helps if not, what else can I say or do?
All these post and not one post saying you know it is not very christian like to insult or judge someone. Instead many rallied behind it, just as with Brother Tim. I could not believe nobody noticed he was hurting and trying to say something until the last post. He is a good person.


I ask for every post following this about this thread, say your point. I ask you to except my apology. Please answer these questions

1. do you really feel I have evil intent here?
2. would you rather me just go Because im in TCOG?
3 should I just leave so nobody else is upset?
4 Is it justified to say such things about any group of people regardless of there affiliation?

If you respond overwhelming yes I will stop posting. It would be a shame because I was enjoying this forum. If you feel i am over sensitive so be it. Before I was saved I was in a lot of crime. I was in a gang [the first one] at 14 years old. I have many friends who were dear to me that have been murdered. Mostly over words. I,lost one of my best friends after I was saved on thanksgiving day as he was murdered for saying much less insults that have been displayed here. When I was saved and sanctified God delivered me many years ago from responding in anger. I try to live by example and not hurt anyone. Thanksgiving is a hard day for me, I was saved and he was gunned down, I was not there to help him. One word, in a joking manner got him shot. So yes I feel uneccesary insults should not happen among christians. Some times I say to much and apologize as I have here. I am sincere about this. May God bless you all .

[paul]

I ask for every post following this about this thread, say your point. I ask you to except my apology. Please answer these questions

1. do you really feel I have evil intent here?
2. would you rather me just go Because im in TCOG?
3 should I just leave so nobody else is upset?
4 Is it justified to say such things about any group of people regardless of there affiliation?

Please hang around, I find you refreshing. Sad, but some here think they are the only ones who have the answers. And if you think or believe anything contrary to their belief....well, they have quite a few names for you. To answer your questions

1. No
2. No
3. No
4. No