Takin' the Youth to hOOters

[scooter]

Scooter, I'm slow today. I'm not sure I get the point. What's not simple about waiting tables at any restaurant? .

Response: We are talking about HOOTERS.

That's it. Being a waitress is rough and can be honorable.

Living here at the home of the original Hooters it is beyond me how any honest person could defend the degrading of women in this manner.

[Sherry]

That's my son......he has been to Hooters, he bought the sweatshirt. He even has some friends back in Texas who work at Hooter's, they are not "sl**ts" as some have so crudely put it. They are working their way through college. These gals do not come from the most ideal homes, but they make good money working there like 3x's the amount of money working there than working at Applebees, and they don't make it by doing "extra favors."

It really makes me irate that a Christian can be so judgmental. Where's the love?

[Shellie]

I'm not sure I get the point. What's not simple about waiting tables at any restaurant?

Hmmm, well down here we have Hooters, Mugs and Jugs, and another that I can't remember the name right now. All three names make a veiled reference to a ladies breasts.

I won't call them sl**ts like some, but let's do get real. Hooters uses sex to sell...period. Let's not candy coat that fact to tell FQ his statements are wrong.


And for a simple aside: We also have a restaurant called T Backs and another called Molly Goodheads.

[DeWayneTN]

I'm fine with slamming the corporation. I just don't find myself on the same side of those throwing blanket judgements on everyone who eats or works there.

[Ilovebigcats]

I won't call them sl**ts like some, but let's do get real. Hooters uses sex to sell...period. Let's not candy coat that fact to tell FQ his statements are wrong.

That is exactly why he made that statement. They are using there job at hOOter's to sell sex. They may not actually "do it" but they are selling the thought. The look. The mood. They are working "it" for tips. Where I come from that is slutty. They may not go as far a prostitutes but they are in the same business. I don't care how much I need an education or an apartment.. I would work 2 jobs before I worked my body for money. Spare me. You can jump Danny all you want... You wouldn't want your daughters working there. And it can be said it is adultery. The woman is placing herself in a postion to cause men to lust. In my Bible she is just as guilty as the one looking to lust and committing adultry in his heart.
The issue isn't judging. I can look at a man and say he is a drunk by his walk and smell. He needs to be saved. I can look a girl and say she is slutty by her acts and dress... it doesn't mean I want her to burn in hell. She does need to be saved. That is side stepping the issue.

BTW... their wings are gross!

[RamboPreacher]

I'm not sure I get the point. What's not simple about waiting tables at any restaurant?

Hmmm, well down here we have Hooters, Mugs and Jugs, and another that I can't remember the name right now. All three names make a veiled reference to a ladies breasts.

I won't call them sl**ts like some, but let's do get real. Hooters uses sex to sell...period. Let's not candy coat that fact to tell FQ his statements are wrong.


And for a simple aside: We also have a restaurant called T Backs and another called Molly Goodheads.

what about Chi Chi's Mexican? that is also a not-so-veiled reference to a hispanic coloquialism in reference to womens breasts. where is the line to be drawn?

marketers know that "sex-sells". I won't deny that. but does it have to make or brake whether or not a "Christian" participates in the establishment? I personally think it comes down to "personal" conviction, and projecting ones personal convictions onto others is good either.

Becasue my personal conviction and freedom might allow me to go to a hooters or chi chi's, doesn't mean that others have the same "freedom". However, my personal conviction does take into account those around me, and though I personally have a freedom and am able to go to places and not lust, I won't becuase I am in a position at church that I realize that others might be offended, and so I don't wnat to be a stumbling block for them.

The difference and that line is also a personal one. So, while I won't necessarily go to hooters because of that personal line, I still may go to a bowling ally that serves beer, or the local grocery store that also has adult beveriges.

The difference may be a fine gray line, but it is one that I draw personally, and I know and fully realize that others have different lines - especially/specifically when it comes to areas that the Bible is "silent", or has no direct scripture reference.

modesty, is relative and a moral standard that is also relative. "lusting in your heart", on the other hand is not (just as an example). So while a person may personally have a problem with lusting in their heart, that does not mean that everyone has that problem.

[dolfan]

Scooter, Shellie: I hope you don't think I'm defending anything about Hooters. I'm not. But, do you think it is fair to sweep all their wait staff into the category of "cheap sl**ts" who are working for a "whore house"? I don't think you would agree with FQ's statement (if you do, then I'm off base in saying otherwise).

Now, as for whether it is sin to go eat at Hooters, we know that eating there is not sinful to the person who eats there without any lusty intent or motive and who can eat quite peaceably without having to battle his heart. I see "sexier" dressing at the courthouse. The uniform is like a costume, to my eyes anyway, and a pretty corny one at that. But, hey, I could go in tomorrow and go slackjawed over one of them, because I'm as red blooded as the next guy.

I've been twice and that was more than enough to tell me that, on the whole, my money is better spent somewhere else. I'm not claiming some holiness that makes my heart keep a regular rhythm when I see a nice looking woman in a tight shirt, but for me, the Hooters uniform just doesn't really make my heart race. I can take it or leave it without violating my conscience or God's word, and I leave it. The business plan is a ruse designed to stir lust and make men spend their money at Hooters, kind of like watching the "OC" stirs lust and a bunch of other stuff to bait people into watching commercials and buying advertisers' products. I'm not going out of my way to bite either of those hooks.
To keep with the original question about taking young guys there, it wouldn't be my right to decide that a bunch of young guys would be able to keep their integrity up while in there. So, I wouldn't take them.

As for the degradation of women, you're absolutely right. Hooters banks on bodacious bosoms and beer-swilling guys who get a jolt of satisfaction from getting smiles and sweet talk from a bulging tank top. They're not selling bibles. They're legal, but that doesn't make them okay. It also doesn't make their employees "cheap sl**ts" and w**res.

[scooter]

These gals do not come from the most ideal homes, but they make good money working there like 3x's the amount of money working there than working at Applebees, and they don't make it by doing "extra favors."

Response: Yeah they do they just don't see selling themselves as a favor.

Why do you think they make more? It is the whoring of themselves.

Hey they might make another X moving a block down the street.

People who are caught up in the trappings of this world are none the less caught no matter how we love them or turn a blind eye to their ways.

White washing selling sexuality won't change what it is.

[Paully_44]

The business plan is a ruse designed to stir lust and make men spend their money at Hooters, kind of like watching the "OC" stirs lust and a bunch of other stuff to bait people into watching commercials and buying advertisers' products. I'm not going out of my way to bite either of those hooks.

Now you've gone and pulled the "boob-tube" into this discussion. Way to go.

[dolfan]

That is exactly why he made that statement.

He called them sl**s (I'm getting tired of seeing the word by now) and wh***s because he wanted to make the point that Hooters sexualizes chicken wings and beer? Please.

They are using there job at hOOter's to sell sex. They may not actually "do it" but they are selling the thought. The look. The mood. They are working "it" for tips. Where I come from that is slutty. They may not go as far a prostitutes but they are in the same business. .... And it can be said it is adultery. The woman is placing herself in a postion to cause men to lust. In my Bible she is just as guilty as the one looking to lust and committing adultry in his heart.

Who printed your bible, gcats? Which translation has the word "slut" in it? Women don't cause men to lust; men cause men to lust. You're wrong that your bible says anything of the sort, and you're wrong for saying that your bible says anything of the sort. You might want to leave a claim check at the blasphemy counter for purporting to speak for the God of the universe on who is and is not "slutty". I'm glad you folks aren't my pastor. You wouldn't be for long.

The issue isn't judging. I can look at a man and say he is a drunk by his walk and smell. He needs to be saved. I can look a girl and say she is slutty by her acts and dress... it doesn't mean I want her to burn in hell. She does need to be saved. That is side stepping the issue.

No, it doesn't mean you want her to burn in hell, it just means you think that she deserves it and that you don't.


And, didn't you have as your favorite video here awhile back the 'Ba-donk Honky Tonk' song or whatever it was?? Don't suppose there was any of what you'd call sluttiness going on in that, was there?

[THE RAzEr]

Poiman - thanks for the explanation. I understand. I don't agree, but I understand.

The challenge to me is that what is "revealing or sensual, provocative, etc" may be different for some people than it is for you. You seem to be projecting your personal paradigm on that issue to others and is, I believe, what is in question - especially when you say others are being irresponsible, when the reality is that to you it is irresponsible, but to others, it may not be. Especially in light of lack of scripture reference that directly teaches what "modesty" is.

BTW - thanks again for your mature attitude in all these posts. Love ya bro.

...do our best to walk pleasing before God on the way. That's the most important thing.

yup, through Christ who gives me strength.

You have made a good point. Let me step in as a sociologist and talk about modesty.

Modesty is taken from the word MODE. The mode is a statistical average. We usually use the MEAN to find many averages. However the MODE is very legitimate especial for the sociologist who is looking for the NORM or what is Modest or more likely in a society.

Paul makes clear that many social issues were not sin issues. he advises that dress be Modest.

One method of obtaining ann average is to add all variables together, and divide be the mumber of occurances. Thus;

22+22+22+11+50+50+30=187 Divided by 7= 27
This a mean average.

The MODE of the same number is 22.

The mode is that which occurs the most frquently.

The mode for insatance of 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 60, 50, 70 is the number 1. it is certainly not the Mean average, but it is a Scientifically Mathematical calculation of the MODE. It is what helps us to understand Modest and Norms. The question in the study of Societal Modesty is to find out waht is normal. This is not true as to what is sin, but on meats, drink, and appearrel, I believe paul makes it clear if he is in Roman he became as a Roman to win the Romans.

So Modesty in the beautiful Islands and modesty in Cleveland, TN, may be differant. Has little to do with sin. it has a lot to do with Spirituality for Paul. It was spiritual to be modest. Spiritual not to use our liberty to offend. Spiritual not to use our personal piety to place a yoke of bondage on our brothers or sisters. Galations says it profits nothing either way.

So what is modesty. If invited to the Ignaugural, wear a nice gown ladies and gentlemen go black tie and tails. Otherwise you bring attention to yourself.

I liked you post as usual!

Ray

[THE RAzEr]

What's HOTTERS? Seem like everybody has been there enough to know what goes on there. HMMMM! Oh it was a typo really. Seriously, that is funny. I meant to type HOOTERS,

I know what goes on there because:
(a) I don't live under a rock in a cave. There have been numerous news items and other TV mentions over the years. (Hey, I also know what crack cocaine is!) and
(b) There is (or was?) a Hooter's in Aloha Tower Marketplace, a big local dining and entertainment complex, and it is OPEN AIR. You can walk past on the way to the steak house and see pretty girls in orange shorts and tiny T-shirts scrambling around with trays of beer and hot wings, without getting near the place.

After you eat at the steak house, can you walk back the same way?

Ray

[Dr. Ron]

Many years ago when the world was young, my wife and I were on vacation. We were hungry and we looked in this town for something to eat. We saw a sign with a big owl on it and it said they had wings and oysters and stuff. We wheeled in.

Although we didn't particularly like the decor, the food was rather good. The little girl who waited on our table was cordial, wore the uniform, and smiled and saw to it that our tea glasses were always full. My wife commented that it must be depressing to wish you had something to show and not have it. We were neither impressed nor uncomfortable. Of course, we didn't know much about the place. I don't think it was very popular at that time.

We ate our food, paid our bill, and gave the standard tip we always give for good service. We didn't discuss it except to say, man I need some rolaids. See, we went in to eat...........and that was all.

Would I take my youth group there? No , but neither would I take them to Six Flags if I was worried about lust.

[Pastor Gary]

There is (or was?) a Hooter's in Aloha Tower Marketplace, a big local dining and entertainment complex, and it is OPEN AIR. You can walk past on the way to the steak house and see pretty girls in orange shorts and tiny T-shirts scrambling around with trays of beer and hot wings, without getting near the place.

After you eat at the steak house, can you walk back the same way?

Maybe I am too old to be part of this discussion, because when I see those girls they don't make my pulse race. I could actually have a conversation with one of those girls and keep my eyes on HER eyes.

[scooter]

And, didn't you have as your favorite video here awhile back the 'Ba-donk Honky Tonk' song or whatever it was?? Don't suppose there was any of what you'd call sluttiness going on in that, was there?

Response: Great point! Now lets talk music.