Hard question for the church......

[Kenya]

Taken from "They Like Jesus But Not the Church" by Dan Kimball

Imagine an unmarried couple who are living together and are sexually active. They enter your church and tell you they aren't Christians yet, but are interested in God and are checking out your church. They begin attending your worship gatherings, and you are happy to see them there, hoping they will come to trust in Jesus. You know they are living together, and you see them respectfully showing their affection by holding hands in church and putting their arms around one another.

But what if a gay couple did the same thing?
How would you answer the following questions?

* How are these two couples different in Jesus' eyes?
* Theologically, what is the difference between the straight couple and the homosexual couple?
* How would your reactions differ?
* How would your church react?

[RamboPreacher]

Its happened here. My answer to your questions: makes no difference..

People need Christ.

[Kenya]

Okay, I didn't mean "us and our church" specifically - I meant "us" generally as in the church for Christians everywhere.

It shouldn't make a difference, but I have a really hard time believing that it wouldn't.

There would be stares and whispers and glances over the shoulders. Would people be afraid to smile and approach them to welcome them and shake their hand?

Just something to think about.....

[RamboPreacher]

yes, unfortunately there are those that would not allow either couple; even if they (leadership) says otherwise.

unfortunately, there are far too many churches that their very atmosphere (people attitudes) wouldn't be conducive for either to want to attend that particular church.

[Steve]

I don't believe the situation is hard at all. The TRUTH should be preached in the church. We are not here to NOT offend, but to be a light shining on a hill. The light is of the TRUTH not of some warm, fuzzy Kum-Ba-Yaness. (And I am not suggesting that is what you are saying, Kenya)

Reading the Scriptures, it seems that the evangelism was done in public, and the church was a place where people who were already Christian to come and learn and support one another. The correction given to the churches was usually a correction of wrong-doing by the members (Corinthians etc.).

I am not trying to be hard, but that is what Scripture shows. There are examples encouraging the showing of Love, but I don't see Jesus or the Disciples IN THE CHURCH coddling people. That is done in places like at the well with the Samaritian woman, and even then her error was pointed out very clearly.

Seeker-focused churches operate in a non-judgemental, whichever way the wind blows fashion, but I don't believe we should. Again, I am NOT saying that is what you are necessarily suggesting, Kenya, but it our focus goes to acceptance, I believe we leave the Scriptural example. I would be happy to consider any evidence from the Scripture that would indicate otherwise.

[RamboPreacher]

I don't believe the situation is hard at all. The TRUTH should be preached in the church. We are not here to NOT offend, but to be a light shining on a hill. The light is of the TRUTH not of some warm, fuzzy Kum-Ba-Yaness. (And I am not suggesting that is what you are saying, Kenya)...

zactly

[Kenya]

Ok, let's back up. We're not talking about the message presented from scripture - you're right, Steve I am not washing down scripture or it's truth. We are talking about how the congregation would receive and treat either couple.

How would your church respond to them? I know that my church would love the unmarried heterosexual couple and embrace them and pray for them to come to a place of repentance. I would hope that my church would love the gay couple and embrace them and pray for them to come to a place of repentance. I haven't seen this happen at this point so I don't know.

I fear that most churches in my area of the country would NOT respond in this manner. They would accept the first (whispering behind their backs of course about them not being married and living together). They would shun the second for fear of catching some disease if they shook their hand.

[Gerald Creasy]

While I agree with the spirit of the question, I wonder if the question is really moot: Would a homosexual be so brazen or clueless to even behave such a way in a church that would teach homosexuality is a sin?

If they know the church teaches it's a sin, then the brazzenness of such behavior would show they are not truly seeking but there to disrupt...wouldn't it?

I mean there are certainly gay friendly "churches" and even gay only churches to be found.

I agree that churches have their "grin and bear it" sinners (involved in certain types of sin) they have patience with and those they do not.

[Brenda]

Kenya [quote]We are talking about how the congregation would receive and treat either couple. [/quote]

First, I say...shame on a congregation for treating them in a bad way.
They are souls and possible seeking the truth.

If a congregation treats these couples, altho both are in sin, but in a different way..they should remember the scripture.
With what judgement you judge that will you be also judged with. (paraphased)
Maybe the Pastor needs to admonish his flock.

We always say, bring us the unwanted the unloved..and then shun them when God says ok..here they are.

If they stick around long enough God will reveal. Saints need to be talking to the Father about them not to each other.
Their a soul.

[PastorDaniel]

Well...I had a lesbian couple come to church....we didn't treat them different than any other sinner couple...we even bought them a refrigerator and stove for their trailer.

Matter of fact....just got off the phone with one of them and they are working on getting back to church....

My goal is to try and help lead them to a place of repentance and regeneration!! Just the same as any other that needs it.

My church is unique in the fact that we have a lot of foster parents involved...and foster parents have a natural tendency to take in the abused and rejected.....

[Kenya]

Well...I had a lesbian couple come to church....we didn't treat them different than any other sinner couple...we even bought them a refrigerator and stove for their trailer.

Matter of fact....just got off the phone with one of them and they are working on getting back to church....

My goal is to try and help lead them to a place of repentance and regeneration!! Just the same as any other that needs it.

My church is unique in the fact that we have a lot of foster parents involved...and foster parents have a natural tendency to take in the abused and rejected.....

Good for you!!

[Poimen]

I would welcome them into the services anytime. However, I would not permit a public display of affection by a homosexual couple. To permit such would NOT be decent or in order.

It IS different than with a heterosexual couple.

The sex in a non marital heterosexual relationship is sinful.
The showing of affection between a heterosexual couple is not sinful.

The sex in a homosexual relationship is sinful.
The showing of affection between a homosexual company is ALSO sinful.

What they do at home is there business.
What they do in the congregation is my business.

[RamboPreacher]

...
It IS different than with a heterosexual couple.
...
What they do at home is there business.
What they do in the congregation is my business.

interesting opinion about sin. complete abstinence of one thing is good, but not for this?

i am with gc here, the homosexual that is that comfortable with their affections; gotta wonder about the spiritual atmosphere of the congregation... but it could happen, since that particular sin may not be taught/preached on every week. so it is up to the congregations paradigm and presentation to them.

[Poimen]

interesting opinion about sin. complete abstinence of one thing is good, but not for this?

I'm not sure I do, but if I understand your comment above correctly...

My point is I would not forbid them to attend because they were in sin, nor beacuse they were adulterers (of either or both sexual persuasions).

However, heterosexual affection of a non-direct sexual nature (i.e., holding hands, touciung affectionately, love pecks, and flirting) is natural, wholesome, and sinless in and of itself. Homosexual affection of a non-direct sexual nature is NOT natural, wholesome, but is by it's very nature sinful. Therefore, I would not be willing to permit such public displays in a church seting, service, or event.

[paul]

We increasingly are living in a society, and educational system that does not hold the same view of homosexuality as the traditional Christian church does.

More and more our youth are being taught, that it is an alternative life style and is nothing abnormal. With that becoming more and more it is very likely that a church can have a homosexual couple displying affection not thinking is is wrong.

If a church preaches the word then the truth will come out and the couple will be faced wiith decissions to be made.

I know of a church where homosexuality is preached as wrong and sinful. Yet almost half of the congregation is homosexual. They know they are accepted with love. God is saving them.

I do not view this as seeker sensitive. I see it as the love of God streatch out to those in sin, without compromising the word of God.

the following is from the protect marriage coalition mhere in California

God loves all people, therefore we love all people, and we will do so regardless of how some view or define themselves sexually. We choose to love those who, for whatever reason, have chosen to involve themselves in homosexual or other unbiblical sexual activity. Authentic inclusivity means loving all persons, without the need to compromise biblical integrity. We openly welcome into our lives as friends and into our churches those who are struggling with same-sex attraction or who are entrenched in that lifestyle, with a sincere hope that they might turn to Christ and be transformed, and join with all of us in the process of being ever more conformed to the truth of the Bible. Genuine, biblically- founded tolerance means not only that we must love those who are actively involved in the homosexual lifestyle, but would include them loving us, without placing demands upon us to renounce our biblical convictions. We are open to meaningful, loving, non-inflammatory dialogue.