Revolving Doors & Grace

[Poimen]

Thought some of you might be interested in my new blog post by the same title as this thread.

Check it out!
http://worldmaybelieve.com/revolving-doors-grace/

[dawgs10]

went thru a debate on this very subject a few weeks ago. hebrews 10:26 says it all. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

[Pastorbps]

went thru a debate on this very subject a few weeks ago. hebrews 10:26 says it all. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

And what does that mean?

[Brian]

went thru a debate on this very subject a few weeks ago. hebrews 10:26 says it all. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

hey dawgs, could you put that in real world terms because I don't think it means what you imply. For example: when I first received Christ back in the mid 90's I was faithful to the best of my ability and walked according to the spirit. Later in life I left the church, not from disdain or anything just basically life got busy and I became less committed etc. etc.
I knew that falling back into a life of sinful pleasures (drugs, drinking) was sin, yet I did them anyway. Then after many years of living out the life of a prodigal son I returned to Christ, broken, sorry, repentant. Ya know what? HE FORGAVE and RESTORED me! Was there no sacrifice? Am I not forgiven because I knew what I was doing was sinful?

We should be careful to apply scriptures accurately and not so off the cuff as to suggest that once someone is saved and they willfully sin then there is no more sacrifice for that sin. The sacrifice is Christ Jesus and he saved me with His own blood and that blood covers everything I ever did and everything I will ever do.
Now that doesn't mean that I am free to sin willy nilly how every I want. Remember, I am bought with a price, the blood of the Lamb. I am His, and unless He discards me then nothing can pluck me out of His hand! So now that grace abounds am I free to sin?......CERTAINLY NOT! But grace and mercy and forgiveness are in place because Christ knows what I am learning more and more everyday,.......that I am not worthy or able to deserve His goodness and love.

[dawgs10]

went thru a debate on this very subject a few weeks ago. hebrews 10:26 says it all. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

hey dawgs, could you put that in real world terms because I don't think it means what you imply. For example: when I first received Christ back in the mid 90's I was faithful to the best of my ability and walked according to the spirit. Later in life I left the church, not from disdain or anything just basically life got busy and I became less committed etc. etc.
I knew that falling back into a life of sinful pleasures (drugs, drinking) was sin, yet I did them anyway. Then after many years of living out the life of a prodigal son I returned to Christ, broken, sorry, repentant. Ya know what? HE FORGAVE and RESTORED me! Was there no sacrifice? Am I not forgiven because I knew what I was doing was sinful?

We should be careful to apply scriptures accurately and not so off the cuff as to suggest that once someone is saved and they willfully sin then there is no more sacrifice for that sin. The sacrifice is Christ Jesus and he saved me with His own blood and that blood covers everything I ever did and everything I will ever do.
Now that doesn't mean that I am free to sin willy nilly how every I want. Remember, I am bought with a price, the blood of the Lamb. I am His, and unless He discards me then nothing can pluck me out of His hand! So now that grace abounds am I free to sin?......CERTAINLY NOT! But grace and mercy and forgiveness are in place because Christ knows what I am learning more and more everyday,.......that I am not worthy or able to deserve His goodness and love.

you repented and returned to the fathers house after this. without repentance there is no sacrifice for sins after you sin willfully. its a very simple verse and to the point. grace helps us overcome, does not give us a license to sin. so no there is no such thing as once saved always saved. 11 peter 2:19-22 makes this as clear as crystal. vs 20 says For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

[dawgs10]

the grace of God is always there for us when we return to the Fathers house. we just need to understand if we chose to leave we are no more under the protection of the Father untill we return.

[Brian]

Thought some of you might be interested in my new blog post by the same title as this thread.

Check it out!
http://worldmaybelieve.com/revolving-doors-grace/

Hey Chris, I hope you don't mind if I quote something you said to make a point. In your reply to John you said "Sometimes, when discussing the doctrinal details alone, it can seem as if we are unsympathetic to the plight of those who have (and I have been one of them) succumbed to such sin. One may wrongly get the impression we deny the grace, love, compassion, and long suffering of our Lord. That’s just not the case!

Chris, it may be that the reason people get that impression is because of things like John said (on the link you provided). He said, "One thing I think that throws a lot of people when we point out the fact that one solitary sin absolutely earns death and God’s righteous condemnation for that sin...."

My first impression is what the heck are you doing "pointing out" peoples sin in the first place? Remember the "get the plank out of you own eye" verse? It doesn't "throw people", it ticks them off when you have a bunch of finger pointers out there saying things like, oh they can't be saved did you see what they were doing.......
It's kinda hard to see love and compassion in that.

Chris, it was a fine post to begin with. I don't disagree that with every disobedience and sin, willful or not, that there must be repentance. The issue for me is how the heck do you (no disrespect Chris) or anyone else know my heart and what I have conveyed to my Lord or not? How do you know the intense grievous prayers and anguish someone may go through in there personal prayer time with the Lord? And whether or not they repent one minute or two or twelve days after there sin? The answer? We don't! We have no idea where the heart of another believer is. That is God's domain and I am happy letting Him be Him.

[dawgs10]

Thought some of you might be interested in my new blog post by the same title as this thread.

Check it out!
http://worldmaybelieve.com/revolving-doors-grace/

Hey Chris, I hope you don't mind if I quote something you said to make a point. In your reply to John you said "Sometimes, when discussing the doctrinal details alone, it can seem as if we are unsympathetic to the plight of those who have (and I have been one of them) succumbed to such sin. One may wrongly get the impression we deny the grace, love, compassion, and long suffering of our Lord. That’s just not the case!

Chris, it may be that the reason people get that impression is because of things like John said (on the link you provided). He said, "One thing I think that throws a lot of people when we point out the fact that one solitary sin absolutely earns death and God’s righteous condemnation for that sin...."

My first impression is what the heck are you doing "pointing out" peoples sin in the first place? Remember the "get the plank out of you own eye" verse? It doesn't "throw people", it ticks them off when you have a bunch of finger pointers out there saying things like, oh they can't be saved did you see what they were doing.......
It's kinda hard to see love and compassion in that.

Chris, it was a fine post to begin with. I don't disagree that with every disobedience and sin, willful or not, that there must be repentance. The issue for me is how the heck do you (no disrespect Chris) or anyone else know my heart and what I have conveyed to my Lord or not? How do you know the intense grievous prayers and anguish someone may go through in there personal prayer time with the Lord? And whether or not they repent one minute or two or twelve days after there sin? The answer? We don't! We have no idea where the heart of another believer is. That is God's domain and I am happy letting Him be Him.

i am sure chris will answer on his own. what i am saying is this is what the Bible says. now your realtionship is with God not me. use scripture to build that. your sin is between you and God. the grace of God will provide forgiveness for sin after repentance. The word repent means to turn from. so we should repent (or turn from) and confess because he is faithfull and just to forgive. thats all im saying with scripture i have given.

[Brian]

i am sure chris will answer on his own. what i am saying is this is what the Bible says. now your realtionship is with God not me. use scripture to build that. your sin is between you and God. the grace of God will provide forgiveness for sin after repentance. The word repent means to turn from. so we should repent (or turn from) and confess because he is faithfull and just to forgive. thats all im saying with scripture i have given.

yo' dog, um I mean dawgs I agree with you and the scriptures that tell us to repent and turn away from sin, to be a new creation and walk in the light and forsake the dark(sin). But far too often we like to "point out" the shortcomings of another and label them backslidden because they don't act/behave in the manner than we think they should.
Or we may know the person and know they have committed some sort of sin or disobedience and wonder how they can profess to still be a christian even though we know we seen them fornicatin with that two bit hoo*er down at the piggly wiggly.....oh, sorry. You know what I mean.

It's that kind of thing I am talking about. I have no idea if "Bob" who I saw leaving the bar last tuesday night has been in deep repentance and heart felt sincere prayer with the Lord. It is not I who can see his heart, can you? I just think there are better things we can focus on than worrying about how many seconds or minutes or days go by before "Bob" has repented and had a Holy Ghost moment. Remembering plank in my own eye and all.

[Poimen]

The issue for me is how the heck do you (no disrespect Chris) or anyone else know my heart and what I have conveyed to my Lord or not? How do you know the intense grievous prayers and anguish someone may go through in there personal prayer time with the Lord? And whether or not they repent one minute or two or twelve days after there sin? The answer? We don't! We have no idea where the heart of another believer is. That is God's domain and I am happy letting Him be Him.

As am I. I think you have misunderstood the intention and context of the statements that trouble you.

No one was attempting to question whether anyone has repented or not. The question had been raised (elsewhere) "what if a person knowingly committed a bona fide sin and then died without repenting?" It is in that theoretical context (where the variables are given with non-repentance as an absolute) that our comments are given.

Likewise, the comment about "pointing out" is aimed at the theological discussion, and specifically at those taking a counter position to the necessity of repentance for known sin in order to retain right standing with God. Not at actually individuals who may have succumbed to temptation and been overtaken in a fault.

I hope that helps clear things up a bit for ya.

BTW, I am thankful that our Father's lovingkindness and longsuffering providentially led you back to repentance and the assurance of eternal life in Christ. I rejoice with you in mercy's triumph over judgment.

[Poimen]

the grace of God is always there for us when we return to the Fathers house. we just need to understand if we chose to leave we are no more under the protection of the Father untill we return.

Amen! On both counts.