I have been a member and part of teh COGOP all of my life. The local fellowship I am part of (in the deep South) would be for a change - at least the majority. We already have people participating in positions who are remarried (I'm one of them.)
You know - divorce isn't the unpardonable sin. There is grace for everything - and mercy too. I'm not a theologian by any means. But if a murderer can be forgiven and licensed in our church to preach behind a pulpit - why can't someone who is divorced? Are there greater and lesser sins now?
Anyways. . . just my two cents worth -
Love to all.
COGOP Members ONLY on this one!
Moderators: Pastor Gary, The J2 Mod Squad
D/R subject HYPERCRITICAL
I am distraught that the church (CoGoP) has come to this topic.
I was raised in CoGoP my entire childhood, in which I was also disfellowshipped because of D/R.
It makes me sick to my stomach that such liberal acts are taking control of Christianity.
Yes I was a member once, I was also a Sunday School Teacher, I was BTI leader in which that was dissolved. I was CPMA leader which was dissolved also. I was even assistant VLB director "DISSOLVED" as well'. I think that is when I actually gave up was when the church just quit everything.
Now as I sit here and read this Divorce and Remarriage topic, and that it is okay for my lifestyle to be a part of CoGoP once again, I am sorry if I offend anyone (Actually I am far from SORRY) but the one thing I am NOT is a HYPERCRIT... I know that in my heart that double marriage is wrong, and that CoGoP is trying to hard to tread in someplace that they need not go...
I am not sorry for my lifestyle, and I married a good man of the Baptist faith. Yet the shame of where CoGoP has gone saddens me and weighs heavy on my heart... I pray for you ALL!!!
I was raised in CoGoP my entire childhood, in which I was also disfellowshipped because of D/R.
It makes me sick to my stomach that such liberal acts are taking control of Christianity.
Yes I was a member once, I was also a Sunday School Teacher, I was BTI leader in which that was dissolved. I was CPMA leader which was dissolved also. I was even assistant VLB director "DISSOLVED" as well'. I think that is when I actually gave up was when the church just quit everything.
Now as I sit here and read this Divorce and Remarriage topic, and that it is okay for my lifestyle to be a part of CoGoP once again, I am sorry if I offend anyone (Actually I am far from SORRY) but the one thing I am NOT is a HYPERCRIT... I know that in my heart that double marriage is wrong, and that CoGoP is trying to hard to tread in someplace that they need not go...
I am not sorry for my lifestyle, and I married a good man of the Baptist faith. Yet the shame of where CoGoP has gone saddens me and weighs heavy on my heart... I pray for you ALL!!!
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Pastor Gary
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Re: D/R subject HYPERCRITICAL
jnsbray wrote:I am distraught that the church (CoGoP) has come to this topic.
First, hello.
Welcome.
Now... the COGOP has not just arrived at this topic; we have wrestled with it for 80 years. For MOST of those years we used intimidation and peer pressure to keep down discussion and dissent, but it has been a topic of anguish and argument for as long as I can remember, and I am 53.
jnsbray wrote:I was raised in CoGoP my entire childhood, in which I was also disfellowshipped because of D/R.
Sorry to hear that.
jnsbray wrote:It makes me sick to my stomach that such liberal acts are taking control of Christianity.
Okay, now you lost me. You are saying that you are divorced and remarried yourself, were disfellowshipped because of that, but you agree with the position? Then why did you do it? I don't get it.
jnsbray wrote:Yes I was a member once, I was also a Sunday School Teacher, I was BTI leader in which that was dissolved. I was CPMA leader which was dissolved also. I was even assistant VLB director "DISSOLVED" as well'. I think that is when I actually gave up was when the church just quit everything.
None of those things were "DISSOLVED" -- they morphed into other programs with different names. BTI? Now called CBL/LDI. CPMA? Heritage Ministries. VLB? Youth Ministries Department. Those were not Divinely inspired names, they were just departments. They still exist in one form or the other.
jnsbray wrote:Now as I sit here and read this Divorce and Remarriage topic, and that it is okay for my lifestyle to be a part of CoGoP once again, I am sorry if I offend anyone (Actually I am far from SORRY) but the one thing I am NOT is a HYPERCRIT... I know that in my heart that double marriage is wrong, and that CoGoP is trying to hard to tread in someplace that they need not go...
So, again, I want to be sure I understand --- you believe you are now bound for hell because you are remarried, but you are not doing anything to correct it? And...
jnsbray wrote:I am not sorry for my lifestyle, and I married a good man of the Baptist faith.
With all due respect -- you're messed up. You believe we (COGOP) are taking a wrong turn, yet you yourself did what you don't want us to allow, and are not sorry. ???
jnsbray wrote:Yet the shame of where CoGoP has gone saddens me and weighs heavy on my heart... I pray for you ALL!!!
Actually, ma'am, if you bleieve the way you do, you'd better save your prayers for yourself, because under your belief you will bust hell wide open; and I'd just as soon not have sinners praying for me.
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
Welcome jnsbray....I've been coming in here about a month now and I've made one very important discovery....your faith and belief in God is a moot point in here if your are not a COGOP...like you I was raise in the COGOP so I'm sure some of our thoughts are similar...I am not COGOP,TCOG,Baptist or any other ORGANIZATIONAL believer...I do believe in God but I don't have a personal relationship with him(my choice)...you are allowed to talk about anything you want to in here but if I were you(unless you have thick skin or are a masochist) I would avoid doctrinal issues...just some friendly advice...again welcome to the "fun"
People are so worried about what they eat between Christmas and the New Year, but they really should be worried about what they eat between the New Year and Christmas. Author Unknown.
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Pastor Gary
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Hey
She made her first post a doctrinal one... can't respond to anything but what she wrote.
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
Yo iamapk,
why the choice?
And if the choice is against relationship What do you believe about God?
OH and welcome jnsbray and you can feel free to post but make sure you are ready unbridled comments will have an Einstien reaction.
[/quote]
I do believe in God but I don't have a personal relationship with him(my choice)...
why the choice?
And if the choice is against relationship What do you believe about God?
OH and welcome jnsbray and you can feel free to post but make sure you are ready unbridled comments will have an Einstien reaction.
[/quote]
Speaking the truth as I know it.
Where to begin...I believe that God was the creator of all things...I believe that Jesus is the Son of God....I believe that the Holy Ghost was sent as a comforter until the Rapture takes place...I believe that the Bible is a history of the early Jews,the life of Jesus,some great poetry,some life lessons and should be used as a guide for our own life and relationship with God and Jesus...at the current point in my life I have chosen not to follow the personal relationship with God aspect however I do follow several of the "guide for my life" parts i.e. the Ten Commandments,love one another as you would yourself,render unto Caesar what is Caesar's(I obey the laws of the land and pay taxes)and I have turned the other cheek more times then I can count(doesn't mean I won't fight,I will,but sometimes it's not worth it to hurt someone either physically or verbally)...I follow the guidelines taught to me by my fine Christian parents who use to say to me "Raise up a child in the way that they shall go and they will not turn away from it."...in other words I know what's right and how to live it I just choose not to...hope that answers your question 
People are so worried about what they eat between Christmas and the New Year, but they really should be worried about what they eat between the New Year and Christmas. Author Unknown.
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PastorMichael
- Regular
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Reply to JNSBRAY concerning D&R Comments
JNSBRAY,
I'm sure you are convinced that your understanding of Divorce and remarriage is correct. As far as you are concerned, debating this subject is useless but I would like to give you some food for thought. I'm strongly opposed to interpreting scripture based on human logic, however, I thought you might find the following observations and questions interesting.
1. It seems to me that you believe a divorced and remarried person
cannot be saved unless that first husband or wife dies. I feel certain
that you believe a person can be forgiven of murder because it is not
an unpardonable sin. So, based on these assumptions, a man or
woman could murder their wife or husband, which ever the case may
be, and then be free to marry again. No, I'm not putting words in
your mouth. This is what you believe. NOW. BASED ON NOTHING
BUT LOGIC, DON'T YOU AGREE THIS SOUNDS A BIT RIDICULOUS.
2. Please read the following verse: Gen 2:18 "And the Lord God said,
"It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help
meet for him."
Please answer this question. SINCE GOD SAID THAT "IT IS NOT
GOOD THAT THE MAN SHOULD BE ALONE, DOES GOD CHANGE HIS
MIND WHEN A MARRIED PERSONS HUSBAND OR WIFE LEAVES THEM?
DOES GOD THEN CONTRADICT HIMSELF AND SAY THAT IT IS
GOOD FOR MAN TO BE ALONE? Please understand, I'm just
speaking from logic.
3. 1st Corinthians 7:9 "But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for
it is better to marry than to burn. I trust you understand that what
this verse is about is burning with passion (desire). Apply this to the
same scenario as in the above statement and ask yourself this
question, DOES GOD NOW CHANGE HIS MIND AND SAY TO THE
INNOCENT PARTY THAT 1ST COR 7:9 DOESN'T APPLY TO THEM.
Please understand that what I've written isn't meant to be antagonistic. My prayer is for you to be saved.
Pastor Michael
[/b]
I'm sure you are convinced that your understanding of Divorce and remarriage is correct. As far as you are concerned, debating this subject is useless but I would like to give you some food for thought. I'm strongly opposed to interpreting scripture based on human logic, however, I thought you might find the following observations and questions interesting.
1. It seems to me that you believe a divorced and remarried person
cannot be saved unless that first husband or wife dies. I feel certain
that you believe a person can be forgiven of murder because it is not
an unpardonable sin. So, based on these assumptions, a man or
woman could murder their wife or husband, which ever the case may
be, and then be free to marry again. No, I'm not putting words in
your mouth. This is what you believe. NOW. BASED ON NOTHING
BUT LOGIC, DON'T YOU AGREE THIS SOUNDS A BIT RIDICULOUS.
2. Please read the following verse: Gen 2:18 "And the Lord God said,
"It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help
meet for him."
Please answer this question. SINCE GOD SAID THAT "IT IS NOT
GOOD THAT THE MAN SHOULD BE ALONE, DOES GOD CHANGE HIS
MIND WHEN A MARRIED PERSONS HUSBAND OR WIFE LEAVES THEM?
DOES GOD THEN CONTRADICT HIMSELF AND SAY THAT IT IS
GOOD FOR MAN TO BE ALONE? Please understand, I'm just
speaking from logic.
3. 1st Corinthians 7:9 "But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for
it is better to marry than to burn. I trust you understand that what
this verse is about is burning with passion (desire). Apply this to the
same scenario as in the above statement and ask yourself this
question, DOES GOD NOW CHANGE HIS MIND AND SAY TO THE
INNOCENT PARTY THAT 1ST COR 7:9 DOESN'T APPLY TO THEM.
Please understand that what I've written isn't meant to be antagonistic. My prayer is for you to be saved.
Pastor Michael
[/b]
Pastor Michael
I use these same scriptures....30 YEARS AGO WITH A COGOP MINISTER...and was told that they didn't apply to the D/R teaching...go figure
I use these same scriptures....30 YEARS AGO WITH A COGOP MINISTER...and was told that they didn't apply to the D/R teaching...go figure
People are so worried about what they eat between Christmas and the New Year, but they really should be worried about what they eat between the New Year and Christmas. Author Unknown.
ImaPK wrote:Where to begin...I believe that God was the creator of all things...I believe that Jesus is the Son of God....I believe that the Holy Ghost was sent as a comforter until the Rapture takes place...I believe that the Bible is a history of the early Jews,the life of Jesus,some great poetry,some life lessons and should be used as a guide for our own life and relationship with God and Jesus...at the current point in my life I have chosen not to follow the personal relationship with God aspect however I do follow several of the "guide for my life" parts i.e. the Ten Commandments,love one another as you would yourself,render unto Caesar what is Caesar's(I obey the laws of the land and pay taxes)and I have turned the other cheek more times then I can count(doesn't mean I won't fight,I will,but sometimes it's not worth it to hurt someone either physically or verbally)...I follow the guidelines taught to me by my fine Christian parents who use to say to me "Raise up a child in the way that they shall go and they will not turn away from it."...in other words I know what's right and how to live it I just choose not to...hope that answers your question
Maybe this would be a better private conversation
But Romans 10:8-13 But what says it? The word is near you, even in your mouth, and in your heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart man believes unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture says, Whosoever believes on him shall not be ashamed. For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
What is it if I could be so bold to ask (and you could ignore or email ananswer if you don't want to go there here!!) is the acts in your life that prohibite in your oppinion the relationship from your comments it's sounds to me that you are already there?
Speaking the truth as I know it.
I did not mean that
Marriage is a sacred thing to me. Love between a man and a woman is a gift from God.
The CoGoP turned it's back on me when me and my son needed the support of friends and fellowship. God didn't turn his back on me, the church did...
Being married in the church, my marriage became almost fatal for me and my baby. My husband was incarcerated, yet I left the state and started over. A CoGoP minister helped my (Ex-husband) to get out of his sentencing. The church stood by him after threatening my son's and my life.
Now I am told everything is fine??? I question the double standards of the church. I know how I was raised, and then things just change and now my (2nd) husband and I along with my children are welcomed back in.
I don't think so.
I understanding is not there, and with the changes that is going on, I would be afraid that the CoGoP church roof would fall in on me.
The CoGoP turned it's back on me when me and my son needed the support of friends and fellowship. God didn't turn his back on me, the church did...
Being married in the church, my marriage became almost fatal for me and my baby. My husband was incarcerated, yet I left the state and started over. A CoGoP minister helped my (Ex-husband) to get out of his sentencing. The church stood by him after threatening my son's and my life.
Now I am told everything is fine??? I question the double standards of the church. I know how I was raised, and then things just change and now my (2nd) husband and I along with my children are welcomed back in.
I don't think so.
I understanding is not there, and with the changes that is going on, I would be afraid that the CoGoP church roof would fall in on me.
-
Pastor Gary
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Re: I did not mean that
jnsbray wrote:Marriage is a sacred thing to me. Love between a man and a woman is a gift from God.
The CoGoP turned it's back on me when me and my son needed the support of friends and fellowship. God didn't turn his back on me, the church did...
Being married in the church, my marriage became almost fatal for me and my baby. My husband was incarcerated, yet I left the state and started over. A CoGoP minister helped my (Ex-husband) to get out of his sentencing. The church stood by him after threatening my son's and my life.
Now I am told everything is fine??? I question the double standards of the church. I know how I was raised, and then things just change and now my (2nd) husband and I along with my children are welcomed back in.
I don't think so.
I understanding is not there, and with the changes that is going on, I would be afraid that the CoGoP church roof would fall in on me.
So -- again I am confused -- you think the COGOP failed to stand by you and did you wrong, but you don't want us to STOP being that way... meaning there will be more cases like yours?? Why? Because it doesn't seem fair that we wronged you -- so we need to equally wrong others?
Your logic eludes me. Sorry.
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
Confussing.
You are confussed, you have no clue.
I had to leave my husband because of Violence and possible fatal endings (to me and my son)
I was the one that was wronged, and shunned. Therefore I got on with my life in seeking happiness and love.I was disfellowshipped for something that is Okay now... Yet growing up, the teachings of CoGoP was pounded into my head.
Now it is Okay for the church to change the beliefs? I was told that it is okay for me and my family to be a part, and with knowing how I was raised, my concience is telling me that the roof would fall on me...
I maybe in the wrong for me being in double marriage because of the beliefs of when I was a child.
I chose the road I live, because God has Blessed me with descency.
The church turned on me, and now they are welcoming us with open arms.
I am not a Hypercrit. I will not return to where I was once an outcast, and I think the church is becoming something it shouldn't become.
I had to leave my husband because of Violence and possible fatal endings (to me and my son)
I was the one that was wronged, and shunned. Therefore I got on with my life in seeking happiness and love.I was disfellowshipped for something that is Okay now... Yet growing up, the teachings of CoGoP was pounded into my head.
Now it is Okay for the church to change the beliefs? I was told that it is okay for me and my family to be a part, and with knowing how I was raised, my concience is telling me that the roof would fall on me...
I maybe in the wrong for me being in double marriage because of the beliefs of when I was a child.
I chose the road I live, because God has Blessed me with descency.
The church turned on me, and now they are welcoming us with open arms.
I am not a Hypercrit. I will not return to where I was once an outcast, and I think the church is becoming something it shouldn't become.
I guess what I am trying to say
Once I was punished for what was suppose to be wrong, but the church can become so liberal that I would be welcomed back...
The Church needs to stay the way it is.
I maybe in a double marriage, and I know that it is wrong.
The church which once nocked me down is changing to fit Society with open arms...
I see a great wrong in that.
The CoGoP is changing to fit the world, when it should be that the world should change to fit the Lord... When the world becomes in control of the Church, there is a problem. D/R is wrong, and I know this in my heart. I guess I would like to know why the Church has become so desperate to fit in with Society...
The Church needs to stay the way it is.
I maybe in a double marriage, and I know that it is wrong.
The church which once nocked me down is changing to fit Society with open arms...
I see a great wrong in that.
The CoGoP is changing to fit the world, when it should be that the world should change to fit the Lord... When the world becomes in control of the Church, there is a problem. D/R is wrong, and I know this in my heart. I guess I would like to know why the Church has become so desperate to fit in with Society...
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