Style Vs Substance

[Gerald Creasy]

Someone wise, perceptive and unabashed once said:

EVERYONE knows the Pentecostal Schtick (ripping out a growl of a shout, stirring up the people with an exciting style etc etc) is UNQUESTIONABLE, even to the point that any thought presented in that style is more true than Bible.

Case In point: That great [heavy sarcasm]"annointed Man of God"[/heavy sarcasm] T D Jakes, voted #1 most influental Christian 2006 and #4 for 2007


God was saying "I am a transformer. I can become whatever I need to be." But He IS a spirit. When God says "I AM that I AM" He says "I can become whatever" and
He showed off from that point on all through the wilderness. He just kept turning into stuff. He kept turning into stuff. They said "We're hungry." He started dropping His loaves of bread. They said "We want meat." He became quail and started flying through the air. They said "What are we going to do for water?" He became water, came gushing out of a rock. They said "It's hot out here!" He became a pillar of cloud by day. They said "It's cold at night." He said "I'll became a cloud of fire by night." They said "We can't drink this bitter water." He became a tree and turned the bitter water sweet. I mean He just kept turning into stuff! One God manifesting in a multiplicity of ways. One God. Now, you don't divide all of those manifestations into different gods. The God of Bread, the God of Quail, the God of Water, the God of tree, the God of Cloud, the God of Fire. Just one God Who manifests Himself in many different ways. Okay? You with me? Your God is multifaceted, manifold, many shades. Okay?

[Pastor Gary]

Me and my folks will take substance any day, thanks.

[Gerald Creasy]

Me and my folks will take substance any day, thanks.

Yes, that's great but, plainly, a great amount do not.

[RamboPreacher]

Me and my folks will take substance any day, thanks.

Yes, that's great but, plainly, a great amount do not.

it is unfortunate.

[Full Quiver]

what a joke

[Pastor Gary]

Yes, that's great but, plainly, a great amount do not.

That's less and less true each day, Gerald -- that's the good news. I don't have any problem with a powerful, loud, old-school delivery that is more than just a bunch of clichéd syfogging -- if the truth is being effectively conveyed it works for me. Like you, I have a real problem with people who substitute volume and speech affectations for prayer, study and effective communication of the gospel.

[RamboPreacher]

what a joke

what? what did I say that was a joke?

[Gerald Creasy]

what a joke

what? what did I say that was a joke?

I think he MEANT to say: Surely, Thou dost jest.

[Gerald Creasy]

Yes, that's great but, plainly, a great amount do not.

That's less and less true each day, Gerald -- that's the good news. I don't have any problem with a powerful, loud, old-school delivery that is more than just a bunch of clichéd syfogging -- if the truth is being effectively conveyed it works for me. Like you, I have a real problem with people who substitute volume and speech affectations for prayer, study and effective communication of the gospel.

Which I guess acounts for his fall from #1 to #4??

This rate, in about twenty years he wont crack the top 40.

I really wonder whether enough progress is being made.

Especially when I come across this:

http://cogopcanada.com/

Yeah, that's us all right. Church of God ol' Prostitute, selling ourselves out to heretics.

No wait. What are we getting out of it?

We're running after these nuts and GIVING them money.

[Pastor Gary]

Yeah, that's us all right. Church of God ol' Prostitute, selling ourselves out to heretics.

No wait. What are we getting out of it?

We're running after these nuts and GIVING them money.

That's kind of a cheap shot, Gerald. Do you believe a Christian that owns a bookstore should have "ACD" stamped on every book they sell, or can we trust people to have a brain, think for themselves, and read critically books we may or may not agree with? My shelves are full of books -- many of them heretical. I have a Jehovah's Witness "New World Translation", the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, and Christian books that span the gamut from Benny Hinn to Hank Hannegraf.

Am I a prostitute for developing critical reading skills? Who gets to be the book police and decide what we should and shouldn't read... or in this case sell?

The examples cited are far from my favorites, and I -- personally -- wouldn't buy either of their books. But I defend your right, and trust your discernment, to read them and filter them for yourself, and their right to sell and even promote them. This is exactly what I have fought for all my life; the freedom from lockstep conformity and authoritarian mind-control that would dictate what is or is not acceptable.

[DaJudge]

what a joke

what? what did I say that was a joke?

I think he MEANT to say: Surely, Thou dost jest.

I take it you were lurking during our KJV/Elizibethian English dustup, Gerald.

[Gerald Creasy]

Yeah, that's us all right. Church of God ol' Prostitute, selling ourselves out to heretics.

No wait. What are we getting out of it?

We're running after these nuts and GIVING them money.

That's kind of a cheap shot, Gerald. Do you believe a Christian that owns a bookstore should have "ACD" stamped on every book they sell, or can we trust people to have a brain, think for themselves, and read critically books we may or may not agree with? My shelves are full of books -- many of them heretical. I have a Jehovah's Witness "New World Translation", the Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants, and Christian books that span the gamut from Benny Hinn to Hank Hannegraf.

Am I a prostitute for developing critical reading skills? Who gets to be the book police and decide what we should and shouldn't read... or in this case sell?

The examples cited are far from my favorites, and I -- personally -- wouldn't buy either of their books. But I defend your right, and trust your discernment, to read them and filter them for yourself, and their right to sell and even promote them. This is exactly what I have fought for all my life; the freedom from lockstep conformity and authoritarian mind-control that would dictate what is or is not acceptable.

First off, thank you for responding to me and maintaining a discourse.

I do not think it is a cheap shot in the slightest. You know very well these books are not touted on this Church website for any "critical reading" exercises. (And yes I have Doctrinaly unacceptable books as well) Even in my local church T D Jakes is held up as an example (Just think one of these children could be the next t D Jakes) and his books are used as devotionals. Not critical reading exercises, but people looking to a heretic for guidance and deep spiritual insight.

This is exactly what I have fought for all my life; the freedom from lockstep conformity and authoritarian mind-control that would dictate what is or is not acceptable

I must say this sixties flashback statement has me completely bumfuzzled.

If a person believes God is a Grilled Cheese sandwich that spoke to him from his dinner plate yesterday evening, is he crazy, or is he just breaking lockstep conformity as to the nature of God??

Is it "Lockstep conformity and authoritarian mind control" Paul is enforcing when he busts Hymenaeus and Philetus in 2 Timothy and calls their preaching profane, and vain babblings and in 1st Timothy calls Hymenaeus a blasphemer that he's delivered over to Satan.

What was the error they preached? That the ressurrection had already happened.

I think Paul would go ape in the modern day Pentecostal world:Where God is every thing, or nothing, or has submitted creative power to my wagging tounge.

And i think WE: You, Me, Everybody will be held accountable for the profane, vain babblers we allow to influence or people UNCHECKED and UNFETTERED

[Mike Vande]

If a person believes God is a Grilled Cheese sandwich that spoke to him from his dinner plate yesterday evening, is he crazy, or is he just breaking lockstep conformity as to the nature of God??

Crazy, obviously. Everyone knows God is a Hot Pastrami on Rye w/mayo who only speaks at lunch time, and only then if you order the barbeque chips and make your pickle into a burnt offering...

[Gerald Creasy]

If a person believes God is a Grilled Cheese sandwich that spoke to him from his dinner plate yesterday evening, is he crazy, or is he just breaking lockstep conformity as to the nature of God??

Crazy, obviously. Everyone knows God is a Hot Pastrami on Rye w/mayo who only speaks at lunch time, and even then you have to hold your pickle just right...

We're talking about this guy, arent we?

[Pastor Bill]

Gerald, in alot of ways the problems is not the heretics out there, as it is the weakness and laziness of Christian people.

So they take a TD Jakes book, and study it without regard to how the concepts line up with scripture. I think they'd be in just as big of a danger if they do that with someone who is doctrinally sound, because they are still not studying scripture, or seeking God.

Anyone following a person is wrong, it's just so much more obvious with these extreme examples, but I'd say it happens in every church too. The issue is more than the heresy, but it's the lack of spiritual discipline and maturity.

When I was a younger minister, I heard a man preach a message centered around some WOF concepts, and it will easily stink you in, I even repeated some of the same concepts in a message not to long later, but as I studied and sought God, I saw more and more the errors in the direction that message could take you, and turned away from it.

If we as Christians are seeking God, this stuff can come and go all it wants, and we won't be torn down, but if we're not, then we have bigger problems than a few false doctrines.