This thread is useless without pictures... oh wait...

[RamboPreacher]

http://picasaweb.google.com/rambopreacher

they are still uploading right now, but thought I would share. please pass it on. will be posting Mary's journaling and my comments on my blog later, still working on that.

I expect the full upload should be done by tomorrow morning sometime.
I am uploading them in order by day. as we started in Egypt, then to Jordan and then to Israel, the Egypt ones are first. here are some...

In case I didn't know what direction to pray (these are everywhere inside buildings) - hehehehhe


yes, the pyramids are that big...


Mt. Sinai is a beautiful place.


believe it or not there are some beee-eeee-aye yooteeful flowers and colors in the desert


and in case you wanted to know what my wife and I look like at Mt. Sinai!

Edit - I forgot to say that I am a geek. Did I mention before that I had my GPS fob with me to track where I took pictures? yup. if you browse my pictures above, you will also be able to see the Google maps of where we were!! not all the pictures have GPS info associated in the EXIF info, but most do.

[Jennifer Smith]

Great pictures, RP!

Those floor symbols are interesting, are they in Jerusalem as well?

[RamboPreacher]

Great pictures, RP!

Those floor symbols are interesting, are they in Jerusalem as well?

the stickers pointing the direction of mecca? no, I was in reference to while I was in Egypt - probably wasn't clear, sorry.

oh, and currently only about 20% of the pictures are uploaded at this time.

[Joey]

Interesting stuff Brent - I really liked the mosaic map from Jordan of Israel. I had seen only portions of it and you had a good wide view of it. Looks like good weather all the way around too.
I'd like know how the trip changed you. Did it support your faith in the Word?
Did you get a chance to see the tomb and golgotha?
What was your favorite site?

[RamboPreacher]

Interesting stuff Brent - I really liked the mosaic map from Jordan of Israel. I had seen only portions of it and you had a good wide view of it. Looks like good weather all the way around too.
I'd like know how the trip changed you. Did it support your faith in the Word?
Did you get a chance to see the tomb and golgotha?
What was your favorite site?

how it changed me? I am not sure yet, I am still "reeling" and "catching up". A couple things that I was "emotional" about was when walking through the Via Dolorosa, I began to be saddened at all the souvenir shops and "sales". I could deal with the markets and other shops, but the blatant marketing towards the "tourists" was a bit overwhelming. I knew it was going to be that way up front, and tried to prepare, but my mental preparations failed.

I had entered in prayer trying to be in a mind-of-prayer, but it hit me that it was going to be very difficult. and then at about half way through when I was approached by actual money-changers (one of which was definitely trying to pray on unknowing "tourists" with counterfeit paper-money, Shekels! when I called him on it, he just walked away in the crowd.

the next thing was when we went to "holy sites", I was very much aware of an overwhelming sense or spirit of legalism. more concern of rules, than relationship (Yes, Christian sites).

Since the schedule was so tight, and we got to "run where Jesus walked", I spent a lot of time concentrating on pictures so that I could review them at my own time and remember where I was in a better spirit. I am a very empathetic person (gift of discernment? - not something I talk about much to anyone, but is difficult to explain my feelings without this TMI, also says a bit why I personally would prefer the solitude of a dig site, than a "holy-place" with a huge crowd) and it was difficult to enjoy what I could with all the emotions, and spirits of others pouring in at me; none of which was very engaged in Spiritual issues.

When we went to to the holocaust museum, it was a very emotional ordeal, and when I found myself behind a group of German/Austrian tourists, I found that there were a few in the back that were making fun of the travesty being presented around them. the others were not like that, but there were a few in the back that I sensed that they felt that it was all a sham and made-up to get sympathy and to make money. I began to cry.

My faith in God remains unwaivering. My faith in what I know of Gods Word was strengthened. I began to recall references to places and peoples that became more clear to me. some things were not what I was expecting. Moriah, for example - to me should be a place in the wilderness somewhere. I never really correlated it to the "temple mount" area.

The Kidron Valley as another example, I had in my mind was a huge rift, and a great river flowing in it. don't know why, but that was my minds eye perception. when standing at the mount of olives area, looking across the Kidron that is essentially huge tracts of graveyards now, it was not at all what I had "imagined".

Speaking of graveyards... I found it very interesting that according to Mishnah and Talmudic traditions, the Messiah will enter Jerusalem and to the Temple by The Eastern Gate, the "golden gate". the Muslims had walled up that gate specifically to not allow anyone to try to fulfill that "prophecy". Further, knowing the clean/unclean issues of Judaism, then have that huge grave yard there on that side of the valley, so that no "righteous" Jew would step foot there, let alone get to the gate.

physical. all physical paradigms. and when we were allowed to the temple mount area, we were specifically told that we were not to bring any bibles with us. and that if we did, we would be in big trouble by the Muslim armed guards. We were told that they believe that if a Bible was allowed on the temple mount, that in might spur an earthquake or other (Muslim)-God punishment.

When we left fo the trip, I put a tiny new testament in my but-pack, . it is really tiny and key-chain sized. I had forgotten I had it. about the time we got passed the security checks, walked through the metal detectors and allowed them to search our bags (they didn't see it), I remembered that I had it. I told the tour-guide. he just said don't get it out. Of course there was no earthquakes.

As for the Tomb and Golgotha, you mean these:


and this:


the one place that I actually liked listening to the tour-guide info. why? because they started off with that our faith isn't dependent on places. and explained why they believe that this is Golgotha, and the tomb. nearly every other site and place made apriori statements (statements made with assumption that they are factual with no evidences or proofs necessary) about their "holiness". This was the place that such and such happened etc... So many "statements-of-fact", that are really based on traditions, and theories.

In Capernaum, for example: We got to see the archaeological site (church on top) of "Peter's house". being familiar with many things archaeological in the Palistine and Middle east, I knew that it was probably no more Peter's house, than the first century boat they found ("The Jesus Boat") was the actual Boat Jesus was in with the disciples. As I recalled, I believe that the dig site was discovered, they found a fish hook, and some evidences of nets/fishing gear; so "automatically", it became "Peter's house". do you think that the general public knows this? nope, they are told that it IS (was) Peter's house.

I was expecting a lot of that before I left, and so was actually very prepared for those things. As a "teacher", I felt so useless, though, as whenever we were at places, I wanted to scream. or at least ask the guides some pointed questions. I refrained. it was neither the time, nor the "place". I did have a great conversation with the guide of the other bus (our group was two buses large, about 70 folks). I found out he was an archaeologist, so asked him about a lot of things, but the topic came up about those apriori statements.

His answer made a lot of sense. people don't come to the area to be taught and have lessons. they want to feel like they are at Biblical places. and relate to them. it's like Christmas, he said. We all know that Jesus was not born on December 25th. but it is a sacred time set aside to celebrate His birth. Just like these places are "sacred places" to "celebrate", and for people to relate to. He said that if someone or the group were to ask, then he said he would try to quickly explain "why"; but, he said that I was the first to ask the why-questions.

many more comments when I finish my work on my blog and also post my wifes journaling from the trip, but glad to answer questions here too.

[deb]

Thanks for sharing Rambo. I find the part about the "Eastern Gate or Golden Gate" very interesting. You can do a google search and find all kinds of interesting things about it. I included one link and part of the article below. According to some articles, by being buried there, they think they will be the first to be raised from the dead!

Speaking of graveyards... I found it very interesting that according to Mishnah and Talmudic traditions, the Messiah will enter Jerusalem and to the Temple by The Eastern Gate, the "golden gate". the Muslims had walled up that gate specifically to not allow anyone to try to fulfill that "prophecy". Further, knowing the clean/unclean issues of Judaism, then have that huge grave yard there on that side of the valley, so that no "righteous" Jew would step foot there, let alone get to the gate.

http://www.bible-history.com/jewishtemp ... n_Gate.htm
The Sealed Gate

It is interesting that this gate is the only one of the eight gates in Jerusalem that is sealed. The Arabs believe that since the Jews expect that Messiah would come through this gate (Sha'ar harachamim) they would try to prevent any possibility of His return.

The East gate was walled up by it's Muslim conquerors (the Ottoman Turks) with great stones in 1530 A.D. and a cemetery was planted in front of it thinking that the Jewish Messiah could not set foot in a cemetery and therefore would not be able to come. Many believe this was done to prevent the entrance of the Jewish Messiah through that gate as was foretold by known Old Testament prophecies. However, Ezekiel prophesied the shutting of this gate itself around 600 B.C. -- that it would be shut "because the LORD (Jehovah or Yahweh), the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut."

The East Gate and the Return of the Messiah

Nehemiah 3:29 "...the gate that looketh toward the east: And the glory of the Lord came into the house by the way of the gate whose prospect is toward the east."

Ezekiel 44:1-3 Then he brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, which faces east; and it was shut. And he said to me, "This gate shall remain shut; it shall not be opened, and no one shall enter by it; for the LORD, the God of Israel, has entered by it; therefore it shall remain shut. Only the prince may sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by way of the vestibule of the gate, and shall go out by the same way."

Jesus entered Jerusalem through the East gate around 30 A.D. (long before it was blocked by the Ottomans) as he came down from the Mount of Olives and entered the temple according to our understanding of Luke 19:28-48. He would have entered through the original gate in the wall which was destroyed with the city by the Romans in 70 A.D. Ezekiel says concerning this closed gate that the "Prince" (which the Messiah is often called throughout the Old Testament and Jesus is called in the New Testament) shall enter it again. Jesus, having entered the city, said that he would not be seen again until Jerusalem acknowledges him (Matthew 23:37-39).

[Jennifer Smith]

Rambo, that is really interesting, and thank-you for giving us some of your thoughts about your trip!

[DaJudge]

Great pics Rambo, and great insight. My guess is, if these guides are like the guides I've seen at American historical sites, that these many of these guides are just regurgitating what they've heard, and have not even a fraction of the historical or archaeological knowledge that you have.

[RamboPreacher]

Great pics Rambo, and great insight. My guess is, if these guides are like the guides I've seen at American historical sites, that these many of these guides are just regurgitating what they've heard, and have not even a fraction of the historical or archaeological knowledge that you have.

I do know that contrary to what I posted (on the critical side/views), I wasn't a "stick in the mud" trying to "be right all the time" and ruin everyone else's experience. heheheheheee I don't have to be right at the expense of everyone else's enjoyment.

We had dedicated tour guides that changed, and then at many of the sites the guides were dedicated for the site. One for Egypt, then changed to a different one for Jordan, then another for Israel, and when we went into the Palestine when visiting Bethlehem, etc, had to switch to another and then back to the one for Israel when we came back.

[Joey]

How it changed me? I am not sure yet, I am still "reeling" and "catching up". A couple things that I was "emotional" about was when walking through the Via Dolorosa, I began to be saddened at all the souvenir shops and "sales". I could deal with the markets and other shops, but the blatant marketing towards the "tourists" was a bit overwhelming. I knew it was going to be that way up front, and tried to prepare, but my mental preparations failed.

I had entered in prayer trying to be in a mind-of-prayer, but it hit me that it was going to be very difficult. and then at about half way through when I was approached by actual money-changers (one of which was definitely trying to pray on unknowing "tourists" with counterfeit paper-money, Shekels! when I called him on it, he just walked away in the crowd.

the next thing was when we went to "holy sites", I was very much aware of an overwhelming sense or spirit of legalism. more concern of rules, than relationship (Yes, Christian sites).

Same here. Our guide had warned us pretty well about not even speaking to the vendors and children on the streets. It sounded rude to us at first, but later reminded me of offering potato chips to seagulls at the beach. Do it once and you have a group of them looming in over you, tring to take advantage of an easy lunch.
I remember stepping back to take it in and noticing a father off to the side, sending his 3 or 4 year old son in to the crowds, wearing old torn clothes to beg for money from the tourists. These kids (there were many beggers) would have some small junk that they found on the street or post cards that they had copied and say the only english they knew. "1 dollar! 1 dollar!"

When we went to to the holocaust museum, it was a very emotional ordeal, and when I found myself behind a group of German/Austrian tourists, I found that there were a few in the back that were making fun of the travesty being presented around them. the others were not like that, but there were a few in the back that I sensed that they felt that it was all a sham and made-up to get sympathy and to make money. I began to cry.

That museum was amazing. It is hard to believe that some would deny that it happened, but I know what you're saying. We were taken by the mounds of clothing taken from the Jews, the death toll, the quietness of the U.S. to turn an eye as ships of Jews came across the ocean - but I didn't realize until that trip that prophecy was taking place to bring the Jews back to their homeland. Had it not been for WWII, they may not have uprooted from the locations in Europe and been forced to move back to Israel. I remember just being speechless at human evil and what we can do to one another.

My faith in God remains unwaivering. My faith in what I know of Gods Word was strengthened. I began to recall references to places and peoples that became more clear to me. some things were not what I was expecting. Moriah, for example - to me should be a place in the wilderness somewhere. I never really correlated it to the "temple mount" area.

The Kidron Valley as another example, I had in my mind was a huge rift, and a great river flowing in it. don't know why, but that was my minds eye perception. when standing at the mount of olives area, looking across the Kidron that is essentially huge tracts of graveyards now, it was not at all what I had "imagined".

Speaking of graveyards... I found it very interesting that according to Mishnah and Talmudic traditions, the Messiah will enter Jerusalem and to the Temple by The Eastern Gate, the "golden gate". the Muslims had walled up that gate specifically to not allow anyone to try to fulfill that "prophecy". Further, knowing the clean/unclean issues of Judaism, then have that huge grave yard there on that side of the valley, so that no "righteous" Jew would step foot there, let alone get to the gate.

Right, as if God can't blow the doors off of that sealed up Eastern Gate and raise the dead in that grave yard. That all amazed me too brother. We walked through the kidron valley, and I remember looking up to Absolom's tomb, then going a a few yards further and seeing the pool of siloam, close to where King David took the city by waterway. It opened my eyes to visualize scripture, but now I have to be careful as I elaborate on biblical text not to assume that the congregation or class knows what I'm talking about and be extra detailed about the explanations while teaching or discussing certain scriptures and geography of the area.
As for the temple mount - I think I am most amazed (as it all comes together for me) in the certainty of God's plans and how much we must be missing that we just don't get yet.

Physical. all physical paradigms. and when we were allowed to the temple mount area, we were specifically told that we were not to bring any bibles with us. and that if we did, we would be in big trouble by the Muslim armed guards. We were told that they believe that if a Bible was allowed on the temple mount, that in might spur an earthquake or other (Muslim)-God punishment.

When we left fo the trip, I put a tiny new testament in my but-pack, . it is really tiny and key-chain sized. I had forgotten I had it. about the time we got passed the security checks, walked through the metal detectors and allowed them to search our bags (they didn't see it), I remembered that I had it. I told the tour-guide. he just said don't get it out. Of course there was no earthquakes.

I wish! That would have been a good one to tell.

The one place that I actually liked listening to the tour-guide info. why? because they started off with that our faith isn't dependent on places. and explained why they believe that this is Golgotha, and the tomb. nearly every other site and place made apriori statements (statements made with assumption that they are factual with no evidences or proofs necessary) about their "holiness". This was the place that such and such happened etc... So many "statements-of-fact", that are really based on traditions, and theories.

Was your tour guide a gray haired American that was a Christian and read from John? If so, we had the same guy.
I loved that site the most of all sites and felt it was he real place based on archaeological evidence. I never want to forget it and I don't think you will either. We partook the last supper there too. Speechless worship.
The shade plays tricks with your eyes at that site, so I don't now if you noticed the crosses that previous generations carved into the side of the tomb, but see the picture I'm posting below and you might look back and find them in your photos.
I found it interesting that many years ago, some folks placed a value to the Christian faith on this location (above the other one that catholics pick)and those early believers took the time to mark crosses in the stone hill side - besides the fact that it fit every single description in scriptures, especially in John 19:38-42 .

In Capernaum, for example: We got to see the archaeological site (church on top) of "Peter's house". being familiar with many things archaeological in the Palistine and Middle east, I knew that it was probably no more Peter's house, than the first century boat they found ("The Jesus Boat") was the actual Boat Jesus was in with the disciples. As I recalled, I believe that the dig site was discovered, they found a fish hook, and some evidences of nets/fishing gear; so "automatically", it became "Peter's house". do you think that the general public knows this? nope, they are told that it IS (was) Peter's house.

Right. That area had more fish in it because of the warm springs in the area. The catholics there missed the whole "upon this rock" thing too, thinking Peter was "the rock".
Uhg! That messes up the whole scripture to miss that point!

I was expecting a lot of that before I left, and so was actually very prepared for those things. As a "teacher", I felt so useless, though, as whenever we were at places, I wanted to scream. or at least ask the guides some pointed questions. I refrained. it was neither the time, nor the "place". I did have a great conversation with the guide of the other bus (our group was two buses large, about 70 folks). I found out he was an archaeologist, so asked him about a lot of things, but the topic came up about those apriori statements.

His answer made a lot of sense. people don't come to the area to be taught and have lessons. they want to feel like they are at Biblical places. and relate to them. it's like Christmas, he said. We all know that Jesus was not born on December 25th. but it is a sacred time set aside to celebrate His birth. Just like these places are "sacred places" to "celebrate", and for people to relate to. He said that if someone or the group were to ask, then he said he would try to quickly explain "why"; but, he said that I was the first to ask the why-questions.

many more comments when I finish my work on my blog and also post my wifes journaling from the trip, but glad to answer questions here too.

I know what you're saying. I built that type of relationship with my guide too. He knew I was a teacher and he made sure I understood stuff that others might not care about. I took a complete spiral bound notebook of notes during our tours of the holy land.
Hey, thanks for sharing thus far Brent. I love your pics & posts.

[Sherry]

Thanks for sharing Brent, amazing stuff!! Your recount of the Holocaust museum brought tears to my eyes. When we were in DC last May we visited the National Holocaust Museum and it was heartwrenching. There is an exihibit of just shoes of the prisoners that filled one room, that vision has stayed with me ever since.

[Jennifer Smith]

Thanks for sharing Rambo. I find the part about the "Eastern Gate or Golden Gate" very interesting. You can do a google search and find all kinds of interesting things about it. I included one link and part of the article below. According to some articles, by being buried there, they think they will be the first to be raised from the dead!

Speaking of graveyards... I found it very interesting that according to Mishnah and Talmudic traditions, the Messiah will enter Jerusalem and to the Temple by The Eastern Gate, the "golden gate". the Muslims had walled up that gate specifically to not allow anyone to try to fulfill that "prophecy". Further, knowing the clean/unclean issues of Judaism, then have that huge grave yard there on that side of the valley, so that no "righteous" Jew would step foot there, let alone get to the gate.

http://www.bible-history.com/jewishtemple/JEWISH_TEMPLEThe_Golden_Gate.htm
The Sealed Gate

IIt is interesting that this gate is the only one of the eight gates in Jerusalem that is sealed. The Arabs believe that since the Jews expect that Messiah would come through this gate (Sha'ar harachamim) they would try to prevent any possibility of His return.

Rambo and Deb, this caught my eye and then, the scripture which headed up the reading for today in my ONE YEAR Bible was this very same scripture in Ezekiel.

After reading this, I was thinking about this: what Satan means for evil, God uses for His good purposes; He opens and closes doors- God is in control.

[Brenda]

Thanks for sharing and giving us this information on the places.

It brings it to life for those of us who will probably never be able to visit such a note worthy place.

[RamboPreacher]

Thanks for sharing and giving us this information on the places.

It brings it to life for those of us who will probably never be able to visit such a note worthy place.

don't forget to check the website where all the pictures are located, there are even google maps associated so you can see where they are taken.

[RamboPreacher]

just thought I would mention that I have finished my blogging each day of the trip.
http://rambopreacher.blogspot.com/

I suppose I could have gotten a lot more details and wrote a book, but that wasn't my intent. enjoy.

...now to start writing comments on the pictures on teh picasa site.