political agenda in movies

[pastorables]

Tonight I was watching some of a Christmas movie on ABCFam. During one scene a little girl climbs up into Santa's lap to answer his proverbial question of what she wanted for Christmas. Her response was something like, peace on earth, an end to global warming, and universal health care...

Can movies not be created today without political agendas?

pa

[Pastor Gary]

I am, personally, in favor of universal health care... just not the government mandated/government operated kind that will be little more than a tool for social engineering and control.

("Sorry, no meds for you; you are a fat meat-eater.")

But, if the CHURCH established a system of universal health care... we invested in education for tens of thousands of our best and brightest to be trained as doctors, nurses, and medical technicians not as an occupation, but as a ministry... and then we coupled state-of-the-art medical care with prayer and the love of Jesus Christ, and took all comers, and those unable to pay would have their bills forgiven. Utopian and idealistic, but just imagine the impact upon the world.

There was an article in our local paper yesterday about Pastor Sunday Adelajah (who they seem to have just discovered). Pastor Sunday's movement "The Embassy of the Blessed Kingdom of God for All Nations" is the largest church in all of Europe. (GERALD ALERT: It is highly likely that some of The Embassy's teachings might be WOF or influenced by them.)

My point is, however, less about doctrine that praxis: they are having huge impact upon the society around them:

• Over one million salvations in the first 8 years

• Over 600 churches planted in over 45 countries

• Three thousand leaders ministering in the Kyiv church

• 40 services held weekly in the Kyiv church (in various auditoriums)

• One thousand salvations recorded monthly in the Embassy of God’s Central Church (over 10 thousand per year)

• Although African, Pastor Sunday pastors a congregation of 25,000 members in the city of Kyiv of which 99% are white Europeans, showing that cross-cultural evangelism is still a reality in the 21 century

• Between 1-2 thousand people fed daily in the church’s "Stephania Soup Kitchen" (almost two million people fed over the past 6 years)

• Over 3,000 people set free from drug and alcohol addiction

• There are homes for street and abandoned children (where over 2000 children have been restored to their families)

• Thousands of mafia members have come to the Lord through the activities of the Embassy of God

• The church’s hot-line has counseled over 70 thousand people, of which 1,500 are now church members

• Pastor Sunday has written over 80 books

• The Embassy of God is embarking on building a 10-15 thousand seat auditorium in Kyiv, the first of its kind in Europe

• Established 13 years ago, the Embassy of God is now the largest Evangelical Charismatic church in all of Europe

[dolfan]

PG, this brings up a question, but I've got to set it up ----

Drudge Report is tonight leading with an article about Pat Buchanan's new book "End of America", which posits that the country is already gone to he** in a handbasket and can't be rescued, which is also my firm conviction. The America that I grew up learning about is dead and gone, IMO. But, aside from that irrelevant opinion of mine and Pat's, he points to demographic and cultural as well as policy factors that lead him to his conclusion. At bottom, Pat B. says that America will cease to be European and will become a "Third World" country populated in the majority by Hispanics and other racial and cultural minorities, groups whose ideas and identity have no relation to the America you and I grew up knowing and loving (and, in your case, serving in the military to protect and defend). Pat B. views this as a doomsday of sorts for us, obviously.

Let's suspend disagreement on his conclusions and assume that he's right. IF he is even in the ballpark, the cultural and political changes ahead are going to sweep over us all. Steamroll and tsunami many of us. BUT, in your view, given what you've described about Pastor Sunday, and what we know of other churches in areas of the world where cultural and political upheaval are actually norms, what can Christians do not just to prepare for the cultural/political changes, but how can we actually equip ourselves to do and be what Jesus said in that new environment??

Now, let me follow my question with a personal opinion - again. And, this is going to largely undercut everything I've been hanging my own hat on for so long about 'doing church'. IF Pat B. is right, it seems to me that the contemporary/seeker/'culturally-relevant' or even so-called "emergent" church models are going to be useless. Something far more powerful .... and I don't mean powerful as in "Lord, send down the pyy-err", although I don't NOT mean that, either .... must be borne out in and through believers, something from an urgent sense of rescue and safe-harbor that doesn't deny the reality of what's happening in the world. IF, and I mean IF, that's the case, what might that something be??? How might it look and what will be the central theme of the church of Jesus Christ in such a time as that??

Sorry for the wordiness.

[pastorables]

.... must be borne out in and through believers, something from an urgent sense of rescue and safe-harbor that doesn't deny the reality of what's happening in the world. IF, and I mean IF, that's the case, what might that something be??? How might it look and what will be the central theme of the church of Jesus Christ in such a time as that??

Could it be something like this? (This is my vision for last days ministry)

Acts 2:40-47

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

[soulsearcher]

No, dolfan. On the contrary, THANK YOU for the wordiness, for it comes closest to describing my feelings about the slow, agonizing death of the America I grew up in.

[Dr. Ron]

Well, call me the eternal optomist, but I think I have a differing opinion to some of you.

Is the America I grew up in gone? Of course. But so is a lot of my hair and the hard body I once had. Gone are the days of many things I hold dear in my memory. I deal every day with people whose lives were run over by a truck in those wonderful days. So much of what we remember to be the "America" we grew up in was the sheltered enviornment of our lives. Gone is the "church" I was taught would not ever perish from my sight. Gone is the man (MAT) that I thought as a child would lead us to the rapture. Gone is the idealism of my youth believing that all christians would and did sacrifice all for the cause of Christ.

I have been a world traveler since I was a child. I have seen with my own eyes, a great many of the changes around the world of the way WE are viewed and have been viewed for a long time. The nations of the world envy us and our progress and want only to have the same opportunities. They can only find them here.

Am I a proponenet of "amnesty" ??NOt in the way it is being offered, but I do understand the desire of others to come here. It is WE the American people who are causing the divisions. At least it is the political structure that is doing it. We are no longer the Republic we once were.

But let me say, as the church goes, so goes the Republic. We the church, decided that Evangelism was not as important as education.....that maintenance of the denom structure was more important that the development of strong christians...that the appearance of being "spiritual giants" who had POWER was more important that being grounded in the knowledge of the truth....that the promotion of "perfection" was more important than the preaching of grace!!!

We have done these things to our selves. Now it is time to march into the "enemies camp" and take back what he stole from us.

I will be sharing the vision that God has given me for the next 12 years for our church with you all soon.....I want your input. But it does not include the feeling that we are doomed.....It is a vision of victory and legacy and joy!!!!! I BELIEVE!!!

Yes there are hard times headed our way...WE will overcome!!!! I will not be a survivor....I will be an overcomer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Through our Lord..

I don't disagree with you in some of your post dolfan..or soulsearcher...just want you to know "the church" is not going the way of the country !!!!!!

[Dr. Ron]

It's early,....so if I seem to be ranting and disconecting in my thoughts,....blame it on that.

[dolfan]

Dr. Ron, I gotcha. And, I don't mean to say that the nation's fate is that of the church. We both know better than that! But, as you admit, America is not the nation it was. Your own observation that the culture and system is divisive goes to the heart of the point about America --- we no longer share, as Americans, a fairly universal, central identity with a common sense of values, of good and propriety. The divisions are, in my view, not something necessarily of the enemy of our souls. As Christians in this particular republic, maybe the circumstances of national division, of 'balkanization', is actually an opportunity in light of the age we're in morally. Maybe, just maybe, the church has an opportunity to win and change people in smaller, even at-odds groups than it does in a nation of shared values when those values are not good for the whole nation. This is a question I have more so than something I'm convinced is true. And, that's at the heart of my inquiry.

As a side item, it causes me to ponder how the church should organize itself locally. What should be its strategies for the future in light of these changes?? Right now, the trend is toward a more relational church, and that's hugely wonderful and timely. Yet, at the same time, that relationalism is wrapped in a package of "cultural relevance" --- something I am wondering now whether it can even exist. It seems to me that to be 'culturally relevant' may mean being culturally selective, and for many churches, that selection of culture is pop culture instead of something more germane to who people are and where they are. And, IF that's true that pop culture is the subculture of choice for the American church on-the-grow now, it also seems to me that being subversive to that culture (which, as I understand God's kingdom, it is by nature subversive to the kingdoms of this world) is forfeited. How can the church be countercultural while buying into the culture it is countering?? Now, that's an age-old question, isn't it? And, I think the very phrasing of it assumes that you can't have it both ways, and maybe you can --- I dunno. And, if you can, does it mean you should? Well, that would be a practical calculation that may yield a 'yes' in some places/times and a 'no' in others. See, this whole thing is messing with my head a little.

[dolfan]

Abu Dhabi is buying a 4.9% stake in Citigroup. We're almost frothing with gratitude, it seems, when they do this but we (rightly) bowed up when they wanted to take over port security. Now, we're giving them even more control of our national purse. Our greatest threats are China and the Muslim nations from without, and these crazy cultural and political fragments from within. Now, that's not really movie material, but I thought it was worth mentioning without starting another thread.

[MacUser]

Tonight I was watching some of a Christmas movie on ABCFam. During one scene a little girl climbs up into Santa's lap to answer his proverbial question of what she wanted for Christmas. Her response was something like, peace on earth, an end to global warming, and universal health care...

Can movies not be created today without political agendas?

pa

Exactly.. but we've lost the argument.. meaning that we are so afraid at offending everyone or anything that .. I'm amazed that Santa and Christmas was even in the movie you watched!!

Have you seen the "DUH Campaign" by Honda or similar car company. They chant "DUH..duh, duh, duh" to Christmas Carol music... while cute.. at it's core is the companies unwillingness to offend and skirt the political correction machine.

When you state Without a Political Agenda.. in the Liberals eyes you are promoting the status quote which is by default.. a political agenda in THERE eyes. Clear as mud?

Seasons Greetings!

[Dr. Ron]

I am encouraging every member of my church to "offend" as many people as possible this season!!!!!

I am putting up double Christmas trees in the church...painting Merry Christmas on my car windows and giving out Merry Christmas cards to everyone I meet!!! I am sick of a few telling the many what to do and what to say!!!!

LET'S TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ilovebigcats]

I am encouraging every member of my church to "offend" as many people as possible this season!!!!!

I am putting up double Christmas trees in the church...painting Merry Christmas on my car windows and giving out Merry Christmas cards to everyone I meet!!! I am sick of a few telling the many what to do and what to say!!!!

LET'S TAKE OUR COUNTRY BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He sure is!

Hey Ron! Merry stinkin Christmas!

[RamboPreacher]

Merry Xmass! hope you all have a great Xmass season and Xmass celebration of Jesus birth, even though He wasn't born on that particular day. May the Xristos, Jesus bless you in this time of celebration of the incarnation!!

[Dr. Ron]

Hey cats....I wondered if you were still here....

I have not seen one quote this week!