For You Gerald

[dalebert]

and anyone else who wants to read a good article.

http://www.etpv.org/whatsnew.html

Scroll under the November 26th Update and read the article by David Heimbold called "The Prosperity Gospel Is Dead"

If nothing else i thought it had it hit home. IMHO...
dale

[Gerald Creasy]

I wish it were dead.

You know if these people REALLY believed in the seed offering all the money they intake would be sent out as seed in order that they would prosper more, but, the very fact that the buck stops at the top, shows the exact purpose of properity preaching.

[paul]

I wish it were dead.

You know if these people REALLY believed in the seed offering all the money they intake would be sent out as seed in order that they would prosper more, but, the very fact that the buck stops at the top, shows the exact purpose of properity preaching.

Gerald, that is a very general statement. The church I attend, runs just over three hundred. It is seven years old and is about $30,000 away from having given $1,000,000.00 to the missions fields. And we still rent a school autatorium for our services. There is no bottle neck at the top here. For our ministry our % runs at about -80% of all receipts go directly to the fields.

I never argued that their are not abuses. But I remember several a SO that raked it in also. Maybe not in the millions, but none the less.....

[Mike Vande]

So, who is David Heimbold and what are his credentials? And who is the owner of that website? Don't get me wrong, I ain't saying he's wrong. But I would like to know bit more about the critic and where he's coming from. He might have a beam in his own eye, you know...

[Gerald Creasy]

Gerald, that is a very general statement. The church I attend, runs just over three hundred. It is seven years old and is about $30,000 away from having given $1,000,000.00 to the missions fields. And we still rent a school autatorium for our services. There is no bottle neck at the top here. For our ministry our % runs at about -80% of all receipts go directly to the fields.

Then obviously that general statement in no way applies to your church.

[Mike Vande]

I just read his personal page, and the guy says he is a dedicated Christian, but fed up with churches.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

[RamboPreacher]

I just read his personal page, and the guy says he is a dedicated Christian, but fed up with churches.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

not necessarily. ther eare aspects that might be somewhat contradictory, but not absolutely and completely.

[Mike Vande]

I just read his personal page, and the guy says he is a dedicated Christian, but fed up with churches.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

not necessarily. ther eare aspects that might be somewhat contradictory, but not absolutely and completely.

A dedicated Christian would observe the scriptural injunction not to forsake the assembling together of themselves, as is the practice of some. A less than dedicated Christian might not, but a dedicated one would have to if they were really dedicated. And assembling together makes a church, by definition.

[TW]

Careful on judging people for not going to church Mike. There are some people that their work schedule precludes them from regular attendance. Church services are usually determined by the time that would be the most convenient for the largest number of church members. Their are also those who's personal ministries would keep them from the normal schedule of services. I don't believe that you meant to, but you built a box and said, if your not in the box your not a dedicated Christian. Now I would agree that if the person had the opportunity, and or ability, to attend and did not, then your point would be more valid.


TW

[RamboPreacher]

exactly. there may be justified (or even in our minds not-justified) reasons, but church-going is not a requisite for salvation or someone else's perception of being a dedicated Christian.

[paul]

AH ! but one cannot read the writtings of apostle Paul without coming to the conclusion that being saved an a part of a community of believers
(church) was inseperable. Remember that for Paul it was all about God having a people and His presence being with them once again ( Via the Holy Spirit ).

[Mike Vande]

Careful on judging people for not going to church Mike.

I was not judging. I was quoting.

There are some people that their work schedule precludes them from regular attendance.

This guy says he's fed up with churches, not that his work schedule precludes him from regular attendance. But even so, I've had to make the choice between being in church and taking jobs that pay more money but would have made me work Sunday mornings. Are you saying I didn't really need to pass up the money?

Church services are usually determined by the time that would be the most convenient for the largest number of church members.

Well, it is getting harder to find a midweek evening service, but it would seem that if a guy can't attend morning services because he's working, he ought to be able to attend a cell group meeting one evening a week.

Their are also those who's personal ministries would keep them from the normal schedule of services.

Yeah, like Mike Warnke, for example. Didn't seem to do him much good, did it?

don't believe that you meant to, but you built a box and said, if your not in the box your not a dedicated Christian.

Can you honestly say you don't believe it's not necessary to do what the Bible says if you want to be a dedicated Christian?

I would agree that if the person had the opportunity, and or ability, to attend and did not, then your point would be more valid.

I think the guy's statement that he's fed up with churches makes it pretty plain he is refusing to attend any church by his own choice. Don't you?

[Full Quiver]

And assembling together makes a church, by definition.

I thought one was in the church when they were saved whether they attended a denomination / congregation or not?

I'd say one could assemble with Christians without going to "church". In fact Paul hid away in the desert for the first three years after his conversion. Was he dedicated? I'd say more than most.

[Rob]

Would assembling together with christians in a home group meeting, because the group was fed-up with churches qualifty as an assembling together?

[paul]

And assembling together makes a church, by definition.

I thought one was in the church when they were saved whether they attended a denomination / congregation or not?

I'd say one could assemble with Christians without going to "church". In fact Paul hid away in the desert for the first three years after his conversion. Was he dedicated? I'd say more than most.

God is saving individuals, but He is also bringing together " a people of God." for His glory, which is demenostrated by the many times and often overlooked words Paul uses in his ethical exhortation. the word is allelon (" one another/each other") Everything is done allelon they were members of one another Rom 12:5 Eph 4:25, who are to build up one another I Thess 5:11; rom 14:19, to care one for another I Cor 12:25, to love one another I thess 3:12; 4:9, 2 Thess 1:3, rom 13:8, to prusue one another's good 1 Thess 5:15, to bear with one another in love Eph.4:2, to bear one another's burdens Gal 6:2; to be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving one another Eph 4:32; Col 3:13, to submit one to another eph 5:21, to consider one another better than themsleves Phil.2:3 rom 12:10, to be devoted to one another in love rom 12:10, to live together in harmony with one another rom 12:16.
God is not just saving individules and preparing them for heaven; He is at the same time creating a people among whom he can live and who in their life together will reproduce god's life and character.
This is the purpose of us coming together and assembling ourselves together. This best takes place in the corporate setting of the Local church, ( or at least is should ).

As to TW comment about one who has a personal ministry that might keep him/her from church.

For me personally, IF I am not traveling, speaking at a church or overseas in crusade. I am in my local church. I try not to miss any service if possible when I am home. That is my family, my prayer covering, the place that provides protection for my family when I am away. It is where I tithe and give my offerings. They are the ones who look out for me and mine. It is where I submit myself and ministry to my local pastor. It is where I receive my spiritual food. It is where if necessary I am corrected, it is my haven of rest and safety in the mist of a storm.