Hinn loses Voting ability on ORU board

[Gerald Creasy]

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20107/oral-roberts-university-19

The evangelist Creflo Dollar has resigned from the Oral Roberts University board of regents, and another evangelist, Benny Hinn, has lost his status as a voting member of the board.

ORU’s spokesman Jeremy Burton confirmed Wednesday that Dollar had resigned and that Hinn had been named a “regent emeritus” without a vote on the board.

Both refused last week to respond to a Senate inquiry into lavish spending by evangelists.

[pastorables]

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20107/oral-roberts-university-19

Both refused last week to respond to a Senate inquiry into lavish spending by evangelists.

Without getting into whether these two ministers are guilty or not of improprieties, one of my pet peeves is for ministers to be looked upon as the only profession under the sun that cannot be wealthy and spend money.

It is none of my business what a minister does/doesn't do with his/her own personal money. Let the Senate go investigate Daniel Radcliffe (Harry Potter) or Lebron James.

pa

[one love]

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20107/oral-roberts-university-19

Both refused last week to respond to a Senate inquiry into lavish spending by evangelists.

Without getting into whether these two ministers are guilty or not of improprieties, one of my pet peeves is for ministers to be looked upon as the only profession under the sun that cannot be wealthy and spend money.

It is none of my business what a minister does/doesn't do with his/her own personal money. Let the Senate go investigate Daniel Radcliffe (Harry Potter) or Lebron James.

pa

In essence of what you are implying I agree. I can't stand the old thought that to be a christian you must be poor. I feel one should always try to better themselves.

Now the other side of that is should a minister be spending millions of dollars that comes from church money. I feel that is out of place. That money could be used for winning more souls. So could any of our personal income. If any minister goes into buisness adventures and betters themselves I think it is good if they can handle that and not let it be there god. Money is not evil!!! Money answers all things according to the bible. It is the love of money that is evil. I would hope that if my buisness really took off and I had the ability to make a million dollars a year, that I would use much of that to benifit the ministry, missions and people who need hand.

To some in remote areas feel making a certain amount of money is a lot, yet if you live in other areas it is nothing. If a pastor lived here with a family and recieved the limit they can recieve, it would still be hard for them to make it. To buy a house here that is 2500-3000 sq. ft. is anywhere from 450,000- 1,000,000 on average. Town houses cost around 200,000. Some areas in va beach just because of location you could spend a million for a small little house.

[paul]

In essence of what you are implying I agree. I can't stand the old thought that to be a christian you must be poor. I feel one should always try to better themselves.

Now the other side of that is should a minister be spending millions of dollars that comes from church money. I feel that is out of place. That money could be used for winning more souls.

Should a minister be spending millions of dollars that comes from church money. depends on if the church, ministry and board agree on it or not. What are the by-laws and what is allowed ?

I know pwersonally of a large ministry that has given over $20,000,000 to world evangelism.

Personally I would have a problem spending great sums of money on my personal needs. But unless we can see their check-book...we really don't know.

[DaJudge]

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/20107/oral-roberts-university-19

Both refused last week to respond to a Senate inquiry into lavish spending by evangelists.

Without getting into whether these two ministers are guilty or not of improprieties, one of my pet peeves is for ministers to be looked upon as the only profession under the sun that cannot be wealthy and spend money.

It is none of my business what a minister does/doesn't do with his/her own personal money. Let the Senate go investigate Daniel Radcliffe (Harry Potter) or Lebron James.

pa

Sorry, but that's a load of horse puckey. I have a HUGE problem with Hinn living a lavish lifestyle, flying on private jets living in multiple mansions, when he continues to beg little old ladies to send him their last nickle, claiming that it's going to win lost soles, when in reality it's going to Benny Hinn's bank account.

Daniel Radcliffe and Lebron James are entertainers. Are you saying that's what Benny is? Actually I agree with you on that if you are. If so, then he needs to give up his tax exempt status, and call his little Dog and Pony show what it is.

[EagerBeaver]

Oh come on guys. It doesn't matter whether they spent all that money or not, it just goes to show that the combined power of Creflo, Benny and Oral himself were never enough to get the ORU Men's Basketball team seeded any higher than 16th in their bracket in the NCAA Tournament.

[Gerald Creasy]

ORU has a basketball team?

[Pastor Gary]

Without getting into whether these two ministers are guilty or not of improprieties, one of my pet peeves is for ministers to be looked upon as the only profession under the sun that cannot be wealthy and spend money.

And one of my pet peeves is viewing ministry as a "profession." It is a calling. A Divine imperative. Being a minister is not equivalent to being an accountant, doctor or architect. Their GOAL is often to achieve the trapping of the kind of success as defined by the world; the goal of a minister is to serve.

Servants are seldom ostentatiously wealthy.

[one love]

Without getting into whether these two ministers are guilty or not of improprieties, one of my pet peeves is for ministers to be looked upon as the only profession under the sun that cannot be wealthy and spend money.

And one of my pet peeves is viewing ministry as a "profession." It is a calling. A Divine imperative. Being a minister is not equivalent to being an accountant, doctor or architect. Their GOAL is often to achieve the trapping of the kind of success as defined by the world; the goal of a minister is to serve.

Servants are seldom ostentatiously wealthy.

big amen on that

[Mike Vande]

Without getting into whether these two ministers are guilty or not of improprieties, one of my pet peeves is for ministers to be looked upon as the only profession under the sun that cannot be wealthy and spend money.

Failure to exercise consitutional freedoms responsibly is usally the cause of losing that freedom. If those involved will not control themselves, the government will step in and do so, for the protection fo society as a whole. And once the government has moved in, it's really hard to get them to move back out. Preachers can be rich if they think they should be, I suppose. But if they are gonna be rich, they'd better be able rto prove they didn't get that way by begging, coercing, or promising big returns that never show up for donations. Getting rich on the backs of those who donate is asking for a government investigation.

I agree with Pastor Gary, to be a minister is a calling, not a profession. One shouldn't enter the ministry because of the pay scale for successful preachers. A workman is worthy of his hire, but who ever said a preacher should be a hireling?

[one love]

Without getting into whether these two ministers are guilty or not of improprieties, one of my pet peeves is for ministers to be looked upon as the only profession under the sun that cannot be wealthy and spend money.

Failure to exercise consitutional freedoms responsibly is usally the cause of losing that freedom. If those involved will not control themselves, the government will step in and do so, for the protection fo society as a whole. And once the government has moved in, it's really hard to get them to move back out. Preachers can be rich if they think they should be, I suppose. But if they are gonna be rich, they'd better be able rto prove they didn't get that way by begging, coercing, or promising big returns that never show up for donations. Getting rich on the backs of those who donate is asking for a government investigation.

I agree with Pastor Gary, to be a minister is a calling, not a profession. One shouldn't enter the ministry because of the pay scale for successful preachers. A workman is worthy of his hire, but who ever said a preacher should be a hireling?

I understand what you are saying. Once it starts the government will place there nose in many more churches. But to take offerings on tv in weeping tears saying help me to bring this gospel around the world, then say on national tv that he has never recieved a dime from there giving, is a lie and should be criminal. Where I agree is I feel the government should stay out of our lives as much as possible, but it breaks my heart that there are so many that give when they dont have and some of these guys are worth 20 to 400 million dollars.

Not to steal this thread but he should not have tax exemption on this lifestyle! What he does is have the ministry pay for so much of these things that he is still excempt. So even if he gets 1.2 million a year salary or whatever and pays taxes on that all the other money that is hidden within the ministry is excempt.

Being a minister is a divine calling not a career choice. If you are not truly called run from it Sometimes as a pastor tithes may just go right back in to the work of the church if needed. No matter the situation we all have a calling and it is a divine appiontment no matter what it is.

[scooter]

I'm pulled in a couple of direction.

1. I hate government interferrence, taxes, especially when they cry separation of church and state at every turn.

2. I don't agree with needless spending in ministries, but who is to say what that means? I mean when I was wet behind the ears and barely scraping by I thought it was ridiculous that my pastor drove a Cadilac. How stupid is that.

I've had people say me having a motorcycle or a boat was too much.

I've had people begrudge the fact that I bought a new car or owned a suburban.

Who gets to say. Hopefully not those people.

3. Who is to say that the lavish spending isn't coming from the proceeds of best selling books. If I write a book having to do with God should the goverment tell me how to spend the proceeds??

We just basically run to the little old widow card and assume offerings are what funds the jet fuel.

I don't know that there are enough widows giving to do that.

[DaJudge]

3. Who is to say that the lavish spending isn't coming from the proceeds of best selling books. If I write a book having to do with God should the goverment tell me how to spend the proceeds??

We just basically run to the little old widow card and assume offerings are what funds the jet fuel.

I don't know that there are enough widows giving to do that.

Here's how Benny makes his Money (from the Ministrywatch.com website)

Fundraising material is one item that BHM is quick to produce and send in mass. It produces lengthy fundraising appeals that are generally emotionally charged.

Fundraising speeches are also prominent in the healing crusades. For many people, the healing crusade becomes an all day event, with the televised portion lasting up to three hours. Because of the lengthy performance, multiple offerings are easily taken for the same event. Cash offerings are sometimes followed-up with credit card offering envelopes. While the offering baskets are going around, emotionally led music is performed, with Hinn sometimes admonishing his audience to repeat phrases like, “This is my day to be healed,” and then talking of sowing and reaping in financial and health areas. Sometimes the offerings have a flare and feel of a healing lottery ticket. Here are a few quotes:

* “As you sow your seed, miracles will happen as you do it!”
(Benny Hinn, TBN, Praise-A-Thon, April 1, 2004)
* “The Lord is speaking to eight men to sow a $1,000,000 each. If you will obey, one of you who lost millions, if you sow that seed God will restore everything that you lost...Obey God and win! I am speaking under the anointing. What God is asking for is a little to what he is going to give you.”
(Benny Hinn, TBN, Praise-A-Thon, April 1, 2004)
* “The more you give the more protection you will have for tomorrow...God will spare you if you sow today.”
(Benny Hinn, TBN, Praise-A-Thon, April 1, 2004)
* “Cause it doesn’t take brains to figure the thing out, you give to get!”
(Benny Hinn, This Is Your Day, October 28, 1999)
* “A man said to me, ‘How much do I sow?’ My reply was, ‘What kind of harvest do you want? If you have big debt, sow a big seed.’ That’s just the way it is!”
(Benny Hinn, This Is Your Day, August 14, 1996)
* “God multiplies the seed you sow, the supernatural power of God hits after you sow, not before, after.”
(Benny Hinn, This Is Your Day, August 19, 1996)

In addition, there is much talk about sacrifice at times of giving. However, such an appeal overlooks a balanced biblical perspective, as evidenced with the biblical admonition “To do righteousness and justice is desired by the Lord rather than sacrifice” (Proverbs 21:3).

Many of the collections of money also seem to create hasty decisions by donors, again seeming to contradict scriptural precepts. From Proverbs we read, “It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way” (Proverbs 19:2). And, “The plans of the diligent lead to profit, so surely as haste leads to poverty” (Proverbs 21:5).

http://ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/F_SumRpt ... =591245704

[paul]

3. Who is to say that the lavish spending isn't coming from the proceeds of best selling books. If I write a book having to do with God should the goverment tell me how to spend the proceeds??

We just basically run to the little old widow card and assume offerings are what funds the jet fuel.

I don't know that there are enough widows giving to do that.

Here's how Benny makes his Money (from the Ministrywatch.com website)

Fundraising material is one item that BHM is quick to produce and send in mass. It produces lengthy fundraising appeals that are generally emotionally charged.

Fundraising speeches are also prominent in the healing crusades. For many people, the healing crusade becomes an all day event, with the televised portion lasting up to three hours. Because of the lengthy performance, multiple offerings are easily taken for the same event. Cash offerings are sometimes followed-up with credit card offering envelopes. While the offering baskets are going around, emotionally led music is performed, with Hinn sometimes admonishing his audience to repeat phrases like, “This is my day to be healed,” and then talking of sowing and reaping in financial and health areas. Sometimes the offerings have a flare and feel of a healing lottery ticket. Here are a few quotes:

* “As you sow your seed, miracles will happen as you do it!”
(Benny Hinn, TBN, Praise-A-Thon, April 1, 2004)
* “The Lord is speaking to eight men to sow a $1,000,000 each. If you will obey, one of you who lost millions, if you sow that seed God will restore everything that you lost...Obey God and win! I am speaking under the anointing. What God is asking for is a little to what he is going to give you.”
(Benny Hinn, TBN, Praise-A-Thon, April 1, 2004)
* “The more you give the more protection you will have for tomorrow...God will spare you if you sow today.”
(Benny Hinn, TBN, Praise-A-Thon, April 1, 2004)
* “Cause it doesn’t take brains to figure the thing out, you give to get!”
(Benny Hinn, This Is Your Day, October 28, 1999)
* “A man said to me, ‘How much do I sow?’ My reply was, ‘What kind of harvest do you want? If you have big debt, sow a big seed.’ That’s just the way it is!”
(Benny Hinn, This Is Your Day, August 14, 1996)
* “God multiplies the seed you sow, the supernatural power of God hits after you sow, not before, after.”
(Benny Hinn, This Is Your Day, August 19, 1996)

In addition, there is much talk about sacrifice at times of giving. However, such an appeal overlooks a balanced biblical perspective, as evidenced with the biblical admonition “To do righteousness and justice is desired by the Lord rather than sacrifice” (Proverbs 21:3).

Many of the collections of money also seem to create hasty decisions by donors, again seeming to contradict scriptural precepts. From Proverbs we read, “It is not good to have zeal without knowledge, nor to be hasty and miss the way” (Proverbs 19:2). And, “The plans of the diligent lead to profit, so surely as haste leads to poverty” (Proverbs 21:5).

http://ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/F_SumRpt ... =591245704

Let me start by saying that I do not defend that which is wrong ( to my understanding of what is right or wrong scripturally). Nor am I a self appointed spokesmen for any of what is termed WOF preachers or ministries.

But I do so tire of the constant bombardment of any ministry. I have been to many BH meetings over the years. I have had many very close friends work for the same ministry.

I have seen very few Fund Raising Events at the crusades. These are gewnerally held with the Partners meetings. People who of their own choice want to be a partner with the miistry.

The one large fund raising event I did see was when they received $50,000 for the Oklahoma Bombing. Half was given to a relief organization and the other half to the Salvation Army.

Envelopes with Credit Card Blanks......Many church do that now. My ministry sends out envelopes with a place for credit/debit card opportunities to give.

Every statement that is mentioned of statements made... I jhave heard many times over in local churches when talking about tithing. And I mean COGOP churches. Long before these minitries came to prominance.

As to the statements concerning Proverbs........these scriptures are being used to support the writers view.

How about Proverbs 20:30 " if you purge away evil, then strike hard enough to wound, for a severe beating scours even a sinner's inward parts ! "

Just think less than 100 years ago, keen floggers would quote such passages to justify whipping a man until his flesh hung from his bones in shredded ribbons. Parents would justify beating children while quoting this biblical text.

BH is not my most highly favored minister. I disagree with him in many areas. He as well as each of us , will be judged by the Word of The Lord.

[DaJudge]

But I do so tire of the constant bombardment of any ministry. I have been to many BH meetings over the years. I have had many very close friends work for the same ministry.

Hinn isn't a ministry, it's a scam.

[/quote]